There has been some discussion about the legalities of DOCS interviewing children.

DOCS can interview children without parents and a support person present. If DOCS come to your home to interview you and your children and you allow them to speak to your children alone, then they will do so. If you tell DOCS that you want a support person present, DOCS have to do so, but only if they believe that having a support person will not obstruct the interview process with the children. This support person can not be the person who is thought to have caused the harm to the children either.

When DOCS go to schools to interview children they will speak with school staff first to get an understanding of the demeaner, the intellectual capacity, level of understanding etc of the child to determine if a support person is needed as well as the type of interview question that will be asked. The child should be asked if they wish to have a support person with them, and if the child says yes, a member of staff from the school (either their teacher or principal) will be asked to sit in on the interview.

If DOCS come to you home and your children aren't there and they ask to be able to speak to your children either at school or at some other time and you refuse, DOCS cannot go to the school without your permission. The only time that they can go to a school and interview children is by using Section 17 of the CP act. This information can be found here http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/C/ChildProtectA99.pdf under Part 1. This section of the act must only be used at the begining of the investigation, that is before the parents have been spoken to and only if it is believed that by speaking to the parents first that the child may be placed at risk.

If you flat out refuse DOCS to interview your children, they can go to a magistrate and put forth a Temporary Assessment Order (TAO) which seeks the provision to have contact with your children. If the magistrate agrees to this, then you have no choice but to allow DOCS to interview your children. Once again you can ask for a support person to be present during the interview, however, DOCS are not bound by any law to do so. If they are decent workers (and there are some) they will allow a support person there.

The purpose of the support person is to be there for the child. They are not to speak for the child or during the interview, they are not to disrupt the interview in anyway. Some information on this can be found here http://www.childsafety.qld.gov.au/p...estigation-assessment/support-guide.html . Also information on interviewing children can be found here http://www.childsafety.qld.gov.au/p...-assessment/interview-child-process.html .

I will try to answer some of the questions that have been put on this forum.

As far as the legalities of interviewing children go, if you allow DOCS or the police to interview your children and there is not a support person present, this is not illegal. If you have allowed DOCS to interview your children and have asked for a support person to be present and DOCS have refused and have interview anyway without the support of a TAO, I don't believe this is illegal but is questionable as far as their practices go.

Yes a child under the age of 10 can be interviewed without an independent witness. If the parent or child has not asked for an independent witness or support person to be present then the interview will go ahead.

In the difference between a support person and adovcate, both are not to speak during the interview and cannot speak on behalf of the child during an interview. Both can be asked to leave the interview if they interfere or speak for the child. Parents can ask for their solicitor or legal representative to be present during the interview, however they are also not to speak for the child and are the same as a support person.

Thank you JusticeForAll for explaining this matter as even some Solicitors today are confused about this.
You are a asset to this forum.

Well what happens if the child of any age FLATLY refuses to speak to DOCS or JAB anywhere.

I will make this a sticky so it stays up the top or around the top of the forum as this matter is interesting and very important.

(PS I like your Avatar.)

If your child flatly refuses to speak with DOCS or JAB, there's not a lot that they can do about it. They must make attempts to talk to all the children involved, but if this isn't possible because the child won't speak to them, then they're shit out of luck!

So once again SILENCE IS GOLDEN.
IN OTHER WORDS ALL, EVERYONE, EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN IF STOLEN FROM SCHOOL OR IF DOCS&JAB EVER COME TO YOUR HOUSE TO SAY NOTHING!
See these so call pros will start talking to your child that does not want to talk to them and they will start by asking non related questions like what they see in the child's room or something similar at school to start a momentum of the conversation, Its like a steam train the steam train slowly picks up speed and once up to speed the train changes track like DOCS and JAB will do very quickly change subject to the Child.
Its disgusting we as parents have to do this but do DOCS and JAB play fair ,,,NO

That is utterly disgusting b/c at the end of the day the CSO claims that the child said such and such when in actuality they either said nothing or they misconstrued the statement to sound like it was something and questionable...

How is that not harm done to a child when they find that out and obviously used against them because it is the misconstrued or changed statement that then is preventing them from coming home and having to live with strangers who even act like strangers...!

Big misconception having the word 'Carer's' at the end of foster...

Thank you Justiceforall...I really just spoke from experience but then my son was 12 and stuck it to them like a bull and they didn't know what to do or say but Dept used the little frightened 9 year old to get what they want. When the 12 year old turned their rights back onto the dept, they separated the boys into different foster carer's and limited contact!

Basically there's nothing a parent can do but to teach their children to be stubborn silent for hours on end if need be! But Dept can get around that too, they just stop contact until the child is willing to break the silence to see their family...

I beat them to the crunch on this one, have pulled my daughter out from school temporarily, and she is not available by any means to them, as i know their agenda is to take my daughter, after that im a tad lost to my next move.... thinking for the moment only

Actually I was suggested this by another member that after everyone problems are finally over you should go out the front of your local temple Of Doom office and hand out fliers sending them to this forum for help.
You know I go to bed at night and think about what can I do to get the message out to the entire Queensland population.
Shit the hits would be going through the roof, but more importantly how many people each day are getting a visit from DOCs and they haven't got a clue what to do.

Hi,
Yes, I just said simular stuff. I am concerned about the others suffering at the mercy of docs who don't know about this site and don't know what to do next.
cheers.

And that's around 99% of the population

Hi,

From past personal experience I initially thought docs would help you, because helping you would help the child? See my logic? I mean I worked for a government department when docs intervened in our lives (as a professional) and I work with the client on their strengths and help them achieve best outcomes in their lives. I don't lie, falsify records, I respect my clients and they know it.
well when docs intervene in families lives and docs are going on about how big and powerful they are, the parent feels helpless and thinks that docs will take over - well docs probably have already taken over by then and cut through the lives, removed children etc. So if the cso states 'we can't give you anymore access visits as the department is already stretched' well you are inclined to believe them. You feel ashamed that this is happening in your life. You are deeply sorrowful that you ever rang them in the first place. You feel that you deserve punishment. No phone call then no notification. Your sorrow is so private (noone else can share this with you to the extent you feel it) and you put on your public mask but when home alone you just sit outside and stare out to space. The deepths of your grief knows no ends. You secretly wish it was night time so you could hide from the world and go to sleep but then you're asleep it is disturbed and you wake from frightful dreams. It's like nothing you have ever experience before in your entire existance. The sorrow is so personal, and then when you finally see your child you think how can the child come to terms with this if you can't. You see the confusion on their little face. You see them trying to cope the best way they can as you see detachment in them. No smiles from the child. Just a little child with a stoney face staring straight ahead after the access visit and the bus is now reversing back. YOu are standing on the curb watching the docs bus driven off to the foster home where ever that is. YOu are deeply concerned about your child's withdrawn state and how hungry and dirty they appear.
You don't know at this stage it is all a (sick) game and this organisation lies, lies, lies and more lies. You are gullible and taking all that is thrown at you. This is a very vulnerable time of your life. You don't know that you have rights as a parent. You don't know that the department wants you to be proactive and flying to the moon and back to prove that you are a fit parent. What you did do was write out a long letter to the foster carer of how your child's routine normally goes, you write out their list of food likes and dislikes and everything you can about your child. You attach your phone number in hope that the foster carer might ring you. You send off huge bundles of clothes and toys back with the child. But of course the department don't see this as you being willing and able to protect your child.
You then find they (docs) are taking you to court again. OMG you read what they write about you that they produce on paper for the courts. Shit, am I that bad? You think it sounds like rubbish but then these people are the government so you go on a huge internal personal trip and loose a lot of self confidence. You doubt your sanity and doubt your whole existence. You shy away from friends after you tell one friend and they shun you. You think this can't be true maybe that docs worker is over worked and made a mistake you think. But somewhere you start to smell a rat earlier on as it is not quite right and even in your depths of dispair you know this to be true so you start documenting and set out to tape their mad phone calls to you. You start to realise that something is amiss. So then you end up getting a solicitor and this time, think well the solicitor will know what to do. It goes on and on and on. Your family tell you to pull out as you have remortgaged your house to pay that $20,000 legal fees. Your family is worried that you will loose your house now as well as loosing your child. You don't know what to do.
The other parent is propped up by docs and made to look like they are really nice. They quote him in their court papers as saying '....'. But at the same period of time the father is abusing you on the phone, and replaying the tape you know he is actually the one who is quite mad, as he goes on about how paranoid he is of you and other quite crazy stuff. Why did his elderly parents inform you only 1 year prior that 'he is the type that shouldn't have anything to do with women or children' and tell you they think he has schizophrenia and is quite paranoid.(Although you have always thought he warrants an axis 11 diagnosis.) He is further strengthened by docs allegations against you and ups his verbal attacks on you whenever he can. docs don't care, they side with this man. They even send the child now interstate to live with this other parent, yet your mother in this same state has voiced she would like the child to go to her. They decline by saying at 70 she is too old to be a kinship carer. They baffle not just you but your family. They even disclose your address to the father, knowing that you had moved and silently listed and so carefully sought legal aid whilst you were pregnant about what to do as you were scared for your and your unborn child's safety back then from this man. Of course the father threatens you on the phone now he knows your address - 'what ya gonna do, do you think I'm gunna get ya?' This man wrote into the courts how he had 2 jobs. that is news to you, you always knew him to be unemployed and payed $5.00 per week maintenance. What's these 2 jobs now all about? He writes how he attends church, yet you know he doesn't go anywhere. You are too embarrassed to state to the court that you were once a sunday school teacher and have been very strongly attached to the christian community as you don't feel very christian at all and feel it would be an insult to God. It's all bizarre. And in fact the magistrate states 'it is the most bizarre case I have heard' once quite a few court cases have been clocked up and you start to fight back with affidavit material and proof of what's really going on.
Eventually you get your child back. The damage is evident in many ways. Your child acts out quite seriously, even sexually in disturbing manner. You complain to docs who now send you to a child/parent interaction therapy unit (costs them nothing) and then you notice on the brochure that this clinic is targeting chidren with major behavioural disturbances. You think but there has never been a behavioural issue with this child only now since docs have moved child from pillar to post.
The father continues to say his rubbish to you any chance he can.
It just goes on.
But what did we gain from this? What good did it do for my child in this government's duty of care to protect child? What did my child gain? Oh and I forgot to tell you about how child was abused whilst in foster care. It is fully documented in hospital charts.
You then start to learn bit by bit just how docs actually should be operating but you didn't see this and in fact you experienced quite the opposite.
You start to write your complaint but it seems to go unanswered. What can you do - it is all very much a waste of time. You have to give yourself a reason why this happened to you, you have to sort it out yourself and make sense of the past year.

The above happened to me. Remember I have always being working as a mental health nurse before during and after this event. I am not legally minded at all. I come from a caring perspective so (dickhead) me thinks that docs would be caring too. It was quite disheartening to realise there are some really shonky people out there in some very powerful positions. What a betrayal.

And even recently I have feared that by posting all this stuff on the internet that docs would bash down my door and shoot me dead. I was intimidated that much. My personal life has not changed. I am not mad, bad or indifferent as docs so desperately tried to portray. My situation that I first rang them to whinge about hasn't changed. NOthing has changed so I don't understand how docs don't keep my child away from me forever!

But I am forever changed. I learnt the hard way not to trust so easily. That is not how I like to operate - I was actually brought up very christian, which in turn affects the way in which I perceive others. I like to give the benefit of the doubt.
And by being forever changed and awakened to docs dirty deals I change some of my goals in life. One now is to do whatever I can for the remainder of my life to expose docs.

If docs rolled me and my child like this. Then what are they doing to the other people who think that docs because they are the government will do the right thing by them. What a shock. Where are these people now? We want to hear from you.

All this reading about the Department of Child Safety and what it has done to some of you makes me sad enough to make me cry, but on the other side I have always said it is impossible for any department to operate this way where they deliberately lie as I just cannot see them doing that but after watching the news last night seeing our professional police acting outside the law well now I am starting to believe anything is possible that there is something not right with this Department of child Safety.

What bothered me about this police corruption down south was the CMC, the police, the ethical standards all knew what was going on but did noting and it took someone to take it to the media to expose it.
I can see that the people on this forum have the same problem the problem is you all are crying but nobody is listening not yet anyhow.

I did read here somewhere that a member said that it will be the Departments turn one day and how will they ever deny it when it has been read by so many on this forum.
Thanks
Michelle

Though I am only an observer of this topic thankfully not having had any kind of interaction with DOCS, learning about this whole scenario has changed me. IHGD (I Hate GOV DEPT) suggested I do a search on DOCS and I was gobsmacked at how many, many people have been butchered by this system and department. So many innocent people and CHILDREN irrecoverably damaged.

There were some mentions within this forum of the Stolen Generation. Another time when Government deemed what was a good environment and parenting for children then ripped families apart with long-term devastating effects. A parent is part of the child no matter what, whether deemed good or bad (by whomever).

And dear "thisisgood", I was in agony, my heart breaking and my stomach twisting as I read your description of your feelings when your child was taken to foster care. I thought of my own little boy and I would die if someone took him from me. I would not want to live! And not just because of the pain I would feel being without him, but mostly because I would know that he would be devastated and ruined forever being ripped from familiarity and his roots and the only person who will ever love him as only a mother can.

And finally, a comment on guilt...guilty until proven innocent?! We must re-examine our system as I am quite sure this is not the way it was intended! I am one of those that would rather see a bunch of guilty people slip through the fingers of justice than to see one innocent person hanged.

For example, say you had 10 adults with a child each, and you knew one of those adults was in some way "abusing" his/her child, but you didn't know which adult it was. Therefore, sadly, but truthfully, one human being is seriously suffering, one child.

So say you investigate these 10 people and find that you've narrowed it down to 3 of the 10 adults that seem to be the possible abuser. And you decide to prosecute the three (unless they can prove their innocence, and it is harder to prove something "didn't" happen than something "did" happen, so now you are trying to prove a negative). And say you found 2 of the three suspected adults "guilty". Let's now see how many people are being destroyed. Two "guilty-charged" adults and each of their children who now lose their parent.

We started off knowing one child was abused. Now we have four people destroyed, not to mention the 1 of 3 that was acquitted, but that was put through trial, judged by society, their reputation permanently stained, so whose life was virtually destroyed anyway, and maybe their child's as well, so that is possibly 6 people now. To make matters worse, now suppose that the adult that was the abuser was so clever that they avoided suspicion in the first place. So he was never amongst the 3 of 10 thought to be guilty. Now we can add the one original abused child (whose parent was never even suspected) to the scenario and have possibly 7 of 20 people whose lives are in shambles.

Just something to think about.

Times have changed as today you're not innocent until proven guilty, you are guilty even when the courts say you are not guilty or its just a case that the jury doesn’t find you innocent, they find that the case is not proved beyond a reasonable doubt, and therefore you are not guilty.

Can you understand the above?
NO COMPENSATION IF FOUND NOT GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW.

Michelle

It will be interesting to see if anything comes out of the so called investigation that the Police Commissioner has ordered or if it will be pushed under the carpet like any complaints against DOCS usually are.

All I can say with regards to the interviewing of children without an independent witness, in hindsight there are a lot of things I wish I and I am sure others knew before having anything to do with this God forsaken department. Very interesting reading indeed. Many thanks for everyones input, keep up the good work and the good fight to get our families back together.

Hi,

here is an extract from my complaint to the various government departments (no response back in over past 12 months now - except that an independent investigation has occured) and also from my original journal back in 2006 whilst docs were reigning over my families' lives -

"... 12 March - I go over to my friend's house where there are 2 work collegues there as well at that time.
I finally tell them about what is going on in my lives.
My long time work colleague and friend is blown away and said 'gees, if they cantake your child off you, then they can take any child off anyone.'
We ring another work colleauge who is a social worker, she tells me that I need to have a good legal representation.
Wow, they didn't get angry or cease to be my friends. Tehy didn't go behind my back.They really supported me through this process. I know I have made life long friends.

13 March - I phone my solicitor and they have not received the order for the extension in a 2nd month. The court session is the next day.

I speak with CSO X on the phone. I asked how long will this go on for? CSO X said 'how long is a piece of string'.

CSO X said my child was not to go to the YMCA daycare mother's anymore as he was now in a situation where he didn't need to go to childcare (there are other children in this foster house).

CSO X also informed me that scan is now involved in my case.

14 March - court again.
We (my solicitor) asks the magistrate if my child can go back to the maternal Aunty's.Incidentally docs write that my sister and her family has been sick. (Docs do not know what actually transpired whilst my child was in her care for that first month.)
Judge said that should not be an issues as 'it was in the spirit of the act'.
We also asked could my child go back to his daycare mother as was his usual routine. I thnk the judge said something about this being a housekeeping matter that could be resolved without the judge's involvement.
In docs form 6 the CSO X writes again that I have unmanaged mental health issues which places the child at risk of physical harm from me.
Again SCO X wrote this without any backing from the medical profession. It was the CSO's diagnosis of me.

Later that same afternoon I ring the ombusdsen office and start looking at channels in which I can process a complaint.

March 16 - my first access visit at the departmental playgroup. Mum comes withme. As docs never asked me about my child's routine I had typed up a document outlining about child's routine and foods child eats.

Thursday 16.3.06
Today I woke around 0700. Last night it really did take me 2 hours to get to sleep. I lie there worrying about this whole issue. I think I was getting antsy about seeing child today and hoping it all would be ok.
I took my dog for a brief walk and came back and got ready. I also packed a chocolate milk drink in one of child's blue bottles, some grapes,packet of dried aprictos, cut cubes of cheese, ham and crackers.
I collected mum fro the train station at 0930 as previously planned. Whilst I waited I got a train time table. Mum arrived as she said she would. I then drove us to the Mermaid Beach Community Centre. Last night I did a pre-run in the car of where to go around 7.30pm at night. I didn't want to be late.
We got there around 10.00am on the dot. I was getting anxious and walked in front of mum. I apologised to her that I was maybe being slightly irritable. She said she understood. Mum was trying to tell me it was in the park but I knew and could see it was in the community hall.
I walked into the community hall and asked them if this was where the departmental playgorup was. Some woman introduced herself to me but I now forgot her name. I place my backpack and little esky down. Mum was in the room now behind me. The moari woman said child shold be here by nowl I mumbed to mum something like I hope child isn't sick and no one has informed us not to come. (I just coudln't bear it to think I wasn't going to see child and if there would be some hiccup.)
I went outside to look in the red bus to see if child was in there. No. I looked around and then saw child walking up a path with another indiginous largish woman. I yelled out child's name and ran to him with my arms outstretched. Child started running toward me too. He was wearing long cotton pants and t-shirt with his orange bibby on th etop of his t-shirt like the proper way to war a bib. I hugged him and mumbled something like I have missed you and I love you. I pulled bibby off him and gave it to him to hold. I walked and hugged and carried him all at the same time.
Inside I sat on an adult sized chair and gave child the chocolate millk to drink. He guzzled it.I then said I have other food for yo and laid out a mornig tea smorgasboard of the foods I brought along.
Child ate and ate and ate.
basically child ate until 10.45am.
The woman supervising was sitting and watching and observing. I eyed her at times to see hwo supervised all of us 'unfit parents'.
Mum sat near us and let me do most of the interacting with child. Child didn't want to run and look at the toys but let me read lots of books to child. Child was now sitting on a child sized chair and I sat on the floor beside and read.
Somewhere in all this I filled up the blue water bottle for child. Mum and I mentioned toeach other how child had been sent wihtout any water bottle, hat, food or change of clothes. Mum said how dirty this (transistional object i.e. comforter) bibby was. I also scanned child for marks on child. Child's fingernails were quite long. I made a mental note to bring some scisors to cut them next week. Child showed me where child had a scab on child's knee from falling over. An oldish mark, definetely not fresh. Child decided that child wanted the cold pack from the esky on child's knee. I let child fiddle around and do this.
I gave child a full water bottle. every time I got up to go to the esky or tap cyhild came with me and held my hand.
Child did a wee around 11.00am.
We did look at what was in the toy box. Pretended to be on the phone to each other. Flipped up some toy with lots of lids.
apparently whilst I was lying on the floor mum said some photographer came in and took photos of some people and then left. I was totally unaware this happened until afterwards when mum told me.
Then I did a drawing and child played with the blunt metal scissors. Child had to pretend to cut my findernails and toenails and my piggy-tail. Child cut the paper. Child raised it's voice in frustration briefly when I tried to help child by tearing the last bit that wouldn't cut. Child then tore a bit too to achieve the desired outcome.
Then mum joined us and played play-dough. The other kids ran around iwth their parents. Child stayed with me and did activities that didn't need large actions of moving around the room. We all had fun playing cooking with the playdough and then pretended to eat our cooking and talked about what ingredients were in them, along with other conversation about this cooking game. I asked child if he needed to do another wee closer to 12md. Child said 'no'.
All up child drank 600mls of water. That was 1,200mls of fluids in total for the 2 hours.
Somewhere after this I handed the supervising woman a typed outline about child's routine to hand to the foster mum. I also wrote what child had eaten and ddrunk in my presence. I asked via letter to send child with water bottle in future. I hand wrote out my landline number on it too. In the mena time mum started pushing child around the play car. I joined in the game andpretended child was going to run over me and I was jumping out of the way.
At around 3 minutes to 12md I noticed everyone had left. Mum was saying we have to go. I mnoticed the woman looking at me whilst she stood facing me and standing in the doorway. I said something like 'time to go?'. She didn't nod but stared at me. I quickly said to child that he had to go back to where he was staying. I told child again that I loved child. I said you will come home soon, but need to stay there a little bit longer.
Child didn't want to hold my hand as he awalked out. Child mentioned that child wanted to hold grandma's hand instead. I could see child knew what was about to happen. The moari man was putting all the other kids into the bus. The woman who stared at me just previously was now sitting in the driver's seat. I quitely siad this is so wrong to mum. The man strapped in child. Child was looking around at the inside roof lining of the van so not to make eye contact with me. Child sicked child's thumb and bibby. The man said 'don't kiss child goodbye'. I said but I want to give child the blue water bottle. Child now went to the foster home with orange bibby plus another bibby and a water bottle.
As they drove off I blew kisses to child as child now looked at me.
How do you process this when you are 3 years old?
I excused myself to mum and said I am probably about to cry. Mum said 'I know'.
Then I howled. Mum and I collapsed on each other and cried. After about a 15 second catharsis mum and I recomposed ourselves. A woman then started talking to us. She started to tel her story. She said she saw chld's father in court on Tuesday and was here at play group lat Thursday. She said he was upset and crying in front of child and everytime she saw him. I thought poor father.

Mum and I then dove back to my place. We had a burger from the corner shop. Later we sat around my dining table and talked tings over.

I drove mum to catch the train back to Brisbane.

I came home and firstly rang a Brisbane docs office to question about -
1. Policy and procedures re: parenting access visits if reunification is the goal.
2. Is 70yo too old to be deemed a kinship carer.
3. Are most cases handed over to the SCAN team.
4. Is it ideal for a child who is placed to a foster carer with the aim of reunification to be stopped from attending child's daycare mum on child's allocated days as per usual child's routine. Is is right to completely alienate child from usual surroundings.
Well of course they didn't want to tell me this and steered me back to the manager for my area. Someone called ... did tell me that 70yo was not too old to be kinship carer. I asked are these valid question and they said yes.
The Brisbane docs worker said on the phone to me to search the net.

I then rang docs office and asked to speak to CSO X who was unavailable adn then to her manager who also was unavailable. I left a message for both to ring me: this was around 3pm thursday 16.3.06. I have a list of questions to ask CSO X.

I then left (answering machine on as usual).

Then I raced into Coles and bought some stationary needs.

I came home. At 4.45pm there were no messages from anyone on my answering machine. I then rang docs and tried 1 more time for CSO X. Not available. The manager of that branch was also not available.

Because I could not get onto any of the docs people at the office I dealt with I ended up making a complaint to the afterhours child abuse line. I said I had concerns that my child was not properly being cared for in foster care and cited my concerns. (my concerns proved correct).

20 March - CSO X returns my phone cal. I ask if I can have more access visits. She said 'no, due to the department being stretched'.
CSO X also sadi now that even if the doctor wrote a report in my favour it does not mean child gets to come home. CSO X said this will go to court again 11 April.
CSO X now changed and said it just wasn't mum's age that decided that chid could not be in her care. CSO X said (that father in different state NSW - 200km away from the queensland boader)
was the frist choice for child to be with. She said that they were checking out if father is suitable to have chid as the interim carer. I asked CSO X if she had rung my sister to see if she could have child back as the judge had said this could happen as 'it is in the spirit of the act'; she hadn't...."


I think that is enough typing for one night. The story goes on to worse stuff. I was crying again whilst I wrote and again re-lived in my mind the horrors of my child in foster care and being driven away. I clearly explain how children become detached whilst in foster care. these docs workers were very scheming. Can you work out what branch I am talking about?
And excuse any typos I was trying to belt it out to hurry up.
Regards.

ThisIsGood, you write so deeply from within, this actually made me shed a tear too. I do pray to God that I can hold on to my children. Currently my youngest is staying with my eldest, and the Department are happy with that, but I do know if they removed her it would kill me. I hope I have strength like you have, when this does eventually happen. Its now just a waiting game for me.

Bitterness makes Strength, trust me I know.

thisisgood
It is sad that you have to go through something like this.

DOCS refused to let me see my children full stop,reason fuck knows butI would expect because I stuck it into them which you tell me what father on this earth would not do the same but because I knew everything was a lie it infuriated me big time.
You wonder why DOCS CSO's get bashed when a father has to put up with this rubbish as when you go to bed at night you close your eye, you know you done nothing wrong so why in the fuck has your life been turned upside down, WHY? the first lie by DOCS .
I requested via a F.O.I a copy of our case and in there I found the below.
SCAN reported in a letter to DOCS which I have via F.I.O. that "QUOTE" EXACTLY WHAT WAS SAID BELOW!.

"You cannot continue doing this by stopping the father seeing the children forever, it has to stop"

The SCAN TEAM were actually on my side.

SEE DOCS USING MY KIDS TO GET TO ME NOW TELL ME IS THIS ETHICAL?

YOU FUCKING WHORES FROM HELL YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ME AND THE WAY I GOING TO HOUND YOU LIKE DOGS LIKE YOU ALL ARE.
Some of you haven't seen your kids for weeks or months but think of me I didn't see me kids for nearly 2 years and after my Committal where the cop on the stand said something VERY,VERY,VERY in my favor both my Lawyers were shocked to what they heard and trust me I wasn't shocked because I was telling everybody the truth but nobody believed me and slowly more and more information was coming out about my case that is in my favor but still the unstoppable trial continues.

PS just in case the person who started this is reading this, we have a master plan for you and there is a saying "QUOTE" Do not do to others that you don't want to be done to yourself, See ya in court fuckwit, in 6 years time.Now I wonder if this person is ever going to leave the country?

I am a product from the abuse handed to me but mainly my family by the Department of Child safety Queensland Australia.

Hello,

Wantsjustice I read what you said. You must be so scared at the present. Remember willing and able. You are willing to have your children and protect them and are able by ...... That is the part you have to prove to docs and court. So get counselling (ask your GP for a referral to a psychologist using the 'mental health care plan'. Do you have suitable housing? So you need to do any courses and have all these nice glossy certificates as proof. Learn how to play the game and you will win.Also you have to say something like this..."Oh yes, I made a mistake, I own my actions and now realise the consequences but this has made me wake up to the reality of my situation. I am plan to change the way in which I do this, that and the other... It is not anyone else's fault but my own, I realise this now. I am terribly sorry to my children...."
Even if it so far from the real truth this is what those bull dogs want to hear. So learn to play the game and tell them what they want to hear. And get it all in writing and leave that paper trail. the government has to be transparent, the docs bullies don't like this and will cease there games. I have been coached by 2 ex-CSO's and am helping my clients now win against docs.
I have much satisfaction personally too. I have helped 3 people this week in my professional capacity to learn how to 'fight' these bastards and KEEP their children. Of course I am not informing my clients just how intimately I know about docs (ie I was recently one of their client too). But I explain as best I can (in a professional capacity of course!) what is really going on.

I HATE FUCKING DOCS. Oops, that slipped out, I seem to have no control.
AND I am so fucking excited, we are going to win.

But it is soooo hard whilst you are going through it all. It is like being stuck in a well and surrounded by darkness and not knowing one minute to the next what is actually going to happen.

Also Wantsjustice spell it out to your solicitor exactly what to do ...."please write them a letter stating... and I would like a copy...".

To Ihategov - I had no idea what happened to you. No wonder you are so angry and keeping that emotion alive. They fucking rolled you too. Yeah, well somehow, whether it be through your courtcase or somehow somewhere JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL! And every day we are getting closer to it!
Just today in my lunch break I went for a walk and did a bit of thinking away from work and home (me time) and I thought I am excited. I am excited. I am excited because there are so many of us. And that is what is great about it all. If it was only you gov-man you wouldn't stand a chance. No one would understand you and we would all think you are some sort of fucked up idiot BUT there are so many of us - and we are gathering momentum and we have all got a common cause.
This is great, it is truely fucking exciting.

So WantsJustice just stand up tall. Take a deep breath and remember we are all with you. We believe in you (and every other person out there who is experiencing the same dilemma). You are not alone, nor are you mad, nor are you a 'bad mother', nor are you so fucked up that you deserve to loose to your children.

THIS IS JUST THE START>
cheers.

Thats right 2 years for a lie, two years that I only spoke to my kids over the phone.
I have mobile phone records for two years showing that I rang where I was living with no phone and only rang via my free hour from telstra via my mobile.
See again when you use your mobile it connects to the closest mobile tower, check your phone bills, so you can't be at two different places at the same time.
Plus I have made sure the neighbours always spot me, they even said why do you slam that letter box so hard ,HaHaHa I got their attention.

DOCS might have won that battle, only because they threatened my missus that they will take the kids off her but in the end DOCS putana's (I forgot how to spell it!) you will lose the war.

Hi, 1 in 4 girls are abused. and I think it is 1 in about 8 or 10 boys. BUT docs look for this as it could be diagnostic of next generation child abuse. I would never tell docs if you were abused by your parents. And remember one's age. I still remember the cane being used in school. I personally remember being hit just about EVERY day whist I was in grade 4 - aged 8 yo - (Kelvin Grove Primary School - Brisbane). My mother went up there and blasted that young teacher about that. (GO MUM).
Well wouldn't docs have a field day if they found out that a child was physically smacked (physical abuse to the exact letter here folks). But of course our government condoned all that then and of course, won't mention this. ANd I am not more than 50 yo - so many changes in one's life. What will I witness the government do in the next 50 years?

BUT I even knew never to admit to that fact. docs would read into it too much. they would have twisted it up fully. And presto, it would have become my fault somehow and hence further impress that 'bad mother' picture.

P.S. Mum, I know you will never read this as you can't even remember how to log onto the computer or what your email thingo was again (techno phobes run in the family!!) BUT thanks so much for being there during the lowest time of my life. I LOVE YOU VERY MUCH.
Nothing will ever compare to the love a mother.
Your daughter.

Oh, that was about sexual abuse statistics. I realise that I omitted this as I typed it out.

so what's a 'putana'? I am lost on that one. are you tired? We could all have bit of a crazy conversation here. OMG, docs were right they really are crazy and therefore a risk to their children.
Hey, I'm a nurse I better do some MANDATORY reporting here on you Mr Ihategov. Ohh, and myself at that matter. But the sad thing in my 'case' is that I sort of inadvertently did do a indirect mandatory report on myself.
I wonder if I could do a mandatory report on the whole of fucking queensland docs.
It's hard not to be sarcastic.

I use to get the strap all the time from the brothers at Catholic school and looking at it today I DESERVED IT!!

If it wasn't for them stupid me never would have got an education. No education no job that I do (HaHa you know what I do)

a not nice word in another of my 3 languages

thisisgood,

Reading that you wrote really put things into perspective for me. Reading your raw emotions actually brought tears to my eyes. I can't imagine what you went through. But it has opened my eyes more so to the way parents feel when they are dealing with DOCS. Thank you for being brave enough to share such an intimate part of your story.

Hi justice.
You have been missing for the last 24 hrs, don't let Cathy the bitch get to you she is just a stirrer
going back many years and so is her older sister.
Worst luck I personally know them.

Did you know that smaking your child doesn't necessarily constitute abuse.

Smacking your child is abuse when you use an implement other than your hand, you leave welts that last 24 hours or more, you leave bruises, you break skin or you break bones. Basically it can't be excessive. But you can smack your child if you choose to use this discipline, it just needs to be acceptable.

Thanks IHG, it taks a little more than someone like cathy to get the better of me! I'm actually away on holidays at the moment and don't have access to a computer all the time, but I get on when I can to see how things are going.

She trolls from site to site to where the action is.
I though I got rid of her when I moved from Sydney but most of their family followed me up here

Hi,

Only I am tired I would write more from my diary tonight. I intend to in the near futre share more of my personal story. I intend to tell you viewers exactly how the notification came about and how my child was abused in foster care.

And of course I am still expecting somehow all this to cause me to loose my good government job - albeit I feel more strongly about this desire to scream it from the roof tops about docs than my daytime job (and my colleagues know I am 110% into my job - I am not a bludger.)
Anyway off to bed soon.
goodnight.

Don't worry, DOCS aren't going anywhere

Hi,
Justice4all, thank you for even looking at this whilst on holidays, it is greatly appreciated.

and Ihategov, that sounds a bit grandiose stating that Cathy and her family followed you up from here. ha ha ha.

Hey, Cathy where are you? She is young and fiesty, I want to know what she is studying?

Thousand move from Sydney to Brisbane every year, She followed her brother up when she flunked it at uni in Sydney and followed her brother up here to QLD to pester him (i think)

Yes, I know. But I have a healthy paranoia that someone will break into my house and steal my computer or records.
But most of my stuff is kept off site. I did that before I ever started my official complaint. My colleague supported this! A lot of mental health workers can't be paranoid can we? Shared paranoia - I can't spell the french term for it. (I would be embarrassed by my lack of spelling it correctly). Anyway I will make it my business to find correct spelling tomorrow. Justice4all can spell it?

Hi,
So what did Cathy study?
A lot of us have studied and flunked and left.

Agriculture I think or something like that.
She will get pissed of now because we are talking about her

I think I invented the word, and DOCS are responsible for turning me thisway.

Yes,
Cathy has to be cool about this as she certainly likes to stir the pot both here and behind the scenes on the PM's.
Hey Cath, any publicity has to be good - doesn't it?
Where are you tonight girl? What you must have a social life or something? That shouldn't be allowed!
Good bye now but not forever...

when Docs interview children....they intimidate them, call them liars, try bribing them, and stand over them until they get what they want from them....right or wrong....my how democracy and justice have disappeared in the age we are in.....all power down to these morons tagged as government.

Like your display name indicates KICKEMOUT, at first when I looked at it it reminded me of when they kicked me out of my house for two years on a fat LIE!

later tonight I will post more from my journal whilst docs were involved in our lives.

Just be careful what you put in it not that DoCs can do anything about it.

hi,

yes, thanks for that advice. It is not naming any names just mainly a chronological account of what happened.
After I write it if anyone thinks I should edit some of it I will. I am open to suggestions and I am realising that by writing it out for all to see I am also exposing myself in the way in which I think and deal with things.

Fucking Service pack 3!
Just updated windows to service pack 3 and like expected it caused me a head ache!!! FUCK conflicts with my firewall as I don't use XP firewall

Hello,

Extract from my journal -

conversation with CSO X 20 March 2006

"... I then ask about the issue of my child going back to the day care mother's as is usual routine (past 2 years of child's life). Again CSO X said child is fine and doesn't need to go to daycare mothers anymore. I asked CSO X if reunification is the goal now. It is not.
She confirms that they will probably try and get 1 years extension to keep child away from me.
CSO X said I have to stay on medication long term and stop taking it at my will (additional note:- I was on an anti-depressant for post natal depression that my doctor advised me to take for 2 years, but not written anywhere; and this CSO is telling me this off her own back without any medical advice; and of course I can get pharmacy printouts of all the antidepressant medication I had dispensed over that past year period from child being a few months old to 2 years old - yes, I have that record in my possession).
CSO X told me I have to stick to one G.P. and that is part of my problem (wow what do you do when you can't get into your usual GP? Yep, you book into another one). CSO X told me that I needed to focus on my issues.

Later I rang mum.
She said CSO X has rung her that same morning. CSO X told my motyher that all this ringing around other departments may work against me.
I said but mum I just trying to find out reasons and policies that this department is making. I need t oinfrom myself so that I can gather any ammunition if needed.

22 March 2006 - I find a new solicitor.

23 March - my weekly access visit with child. Mum comes along for access visits now. My child's orange bibby is absolutely filthy. It is shades of dark brown. I am amazed.

24 March - 2nd appointment with docs chosen psychiatrist. This person gives me 2 pearls of wisdom - 1. not to ever expect support from the child's father and 2. get a good solicitor.
This psychiatrist informed me that she was going to recommend that child and I be reunited.
docs would have been privy to this opiinion at this time as well.

27 March 2006 - I ring a person who is an expert in the field of infant/parent attachment stuff. (Remember my child is now 3 1/2 years old), the psychiatrist recommended her. I talk to her about getting an assessment down with her.

I am now gathering affidavit material as per new solicitor's request.

My work colleague becomes amazing support. She takes an interest in what docs are doing andreads all the literature that is being pumped out. She said I sound worse than some of our sickest patients in the long term stay psychiatric ward (where I am in charge at times of the shift).
She states she had no idea docs worked like this. She said she would really want to make sure a child was bieng abused before doing mandatory reporting as a Registered Nurse.

I am becoming more aware of mandatory reporting as it has been introduced into Queelsnad Health for Registered Nurses. Every ward is now fitted with paperwork to complete even if we have suspicions and no obvious signs. The ante on mandatory reporting has increased in the year 2006. I start to become aware of what docs are doing with mental health clients. Once this was left to the social worker. I even attend inservice on this topic and can access heaps of stuff about docs throught the q'ld health intranet service. It looks all glossy on the outside - I must say.

30 March - weekly access visit at the departmental playgroup. Child still in foster care and I am only given one access visit per week that goes for 2 hours dispite me asking for more access visits. This time I had a large bag of child's winter clothes and toys. I am worried about well this foster family seem to provide for my child.

3 April - I am brought in for a meeting with CSO X and her direct supervisor. Just me alone (where was my new solicitor? She would have been made aware of this). Supervisor does most of the talking. They seemed to have what they wanted to say planned ahead. They weren't ready to listen to me I could see this. They said they did not have their psychiatrist report in yet (Addit; see they would have probably been told over the phone and not actually had it in writing) but they planned to go either of 2 ways. One was for a 12 month protection order or for child to go interstate and move 200km accross boarder into father's care as the father had now been given the clear.

Supervisor asked me about the planned termination and adoption thing. I informed her that I was once a por-active member for Children by Choice. I was even on the committee - I said as facing an unplanned pregnancy I wanted to make an infomed decision. She didn't seem to like that - I read the expresion on her face. She still wouldn't to this day know that I had a specialist appointment booked as well - but medical records could prove all this.

CSO X and her supervisor said but you said you were going t harm the child. I never said I was homicidal towards child but they weren't going to listen. 'But you said..' - it all seemed reminiscent of when the father said but you said you were going to terminate the foetus.
I left not crying but got out of there into the safety of my car where I could be alone.

That very night I had nightmares - I dreamt child was wearing a little dressing gown and was wet through with urine. I was helping child change into clean clothes.
I then woke and realised I was dreaming and that I was wet with perspiration. Then I dreamt I was paralysed down my right side and was trying tomove but getting tangled up in the bushes around my deceased nana's old home. Then I dreamt I was looking at nana's old bathroom. I saw this green bath that had the old claw legs and thought oh I'm glad chlid isnot here because the bath was brimming to the top with water. I didn't have any thoughts in my dream of harming child but because of the 'you said....' I thought I would be aproblem with the water if child was present. It was all bizarre dreams and I was distressed by it all through the night.

5 April 2006 - I rang docs chosen psychiatrist after work to enquire whether the report was completed and sent off to docs.

I then rang CSO X. She said that 'thoughts are enough for us.' when I said but I have never harmed child and have no intention of doing this.
Later CSO X rang back and said after father's access visit docs decided to send child back off with them (father and his old parents). Child now boing interstate to live in NSW.
I was a bit shocked.
I put the phone on loud speaker so my girlfriend who was in the house with me could listen in as well. CSO X said court was still going ahead the following week. I felt that this all sounds like it is over.
I felt that decisions were made and all the affidavit material was now useless. CSO X told me that father was now preparing to apply for sole custody of child in NSW courts and docs would 'opt out if the family law' handed chlid over to father. I said but what if father then gives child back to me? CSO X told me that docs would intervene take child off me and take me back to court. (I said this as father never wanted child before.)
She went on about how I had a clear plan about suiciding with child in the car and had 'verbalised this a number of times". (I ask when?)
I said but that is not true I keep telling you I am not suicidal and would not harm child.
CSO X pushed off this subject and brushed me off - this is very evident when listening to the tapes now - it's all on tape.

CSO X did NOT inform me of any abuse that occurred whilst infoster care, which I later find out from father.

I rang a few people like mum, my friends, the daycare mother, the woman I was trying to set up to do an assessment on us re: attachment stuff and docs chosen psychiatrist.
The daycare mum put it into context that child is best with family rather than being in foster care. That was good and I agree iwth this. I think I wasjust in shock and felt this was now finalised.
Mum said if the father and his parents have child then they would eventually want to give child back as the lifestyle change would be great and so 'take a fool's advice and don't get any more solicitor's involved...'. Mum knew how much this was costing me financially.

Docs chosen psychiatrist actually rang me back that Wednesday 5 April to say she thought docs were being 'underhanded' with me in this situation and not even considering her report ( which was recommending that child be reunited with mother and that she cannot see that child is at risk of harm from me).
This psychiatrist said she was going to ring up docs herself and have a chat.
She said she felt I really needed some support professioinally as well as my friends and family at this time. I follow her advice on this.

Somewher around this time I also speak with CSO X's supervisor who clearly informs me that reunification is not the goal. I think that is interesting considering docs chosen psychiatrist opinion would be available to docs as it is to me.

6 April - my weekly access visit is canned due to child now being 200km away accross the boarder. Child is living with the grandparents even though father lives only 4 kilometres from their house.
during my next access visit with child I send piles of clothes and piles of toys. I have experienced the other parent's inability to provide for his child.

I ring around 12.30pm from work to see if chid was ok. Father picked up the phone and so did child on another line in the grandparent's house. I say something like hi, just rang to say I know child is there and hope he is ok. child started talking and I started talking back to child (uh oh, I am not granted telephone contact at this stage and I know CSO X would hit the roof with knowledge of this).
"hello chid yes, it's mummy here, I will see you soon, I love you lots' and stufflike that whilst also talking to the father. Somewhere father asked child to get off the phone. This is when child starts crying " I want my mummy..." I could hear it all. Child ws really distressed adn crying for mummy. It would ahve been longer than he would usually cries for when he is upset at something. It was really heart wrenching stuff not to be able to console your own child. The father was still on another line in another part of the house and didn't go and console the child. It was someting I will never forget, that little child crying and trying to talk to mummy.
(addit - I am getting teary now re-living all this.)
Father then informed me (still on anther line in the house) that they weren't going to court now on the Tuesday. Father said docs may adjourn it as all the evidence wasn't in yet. I said I would ring back when child was asleep in the future.

That day I booked into seeing Centrecare counsellors to talk over the loss and grief issues of loosing my child and the unfolding events.

7 April 2006 - I had heard a car door close which was in the street somewhere close by. I ignored it as I thought it wouldn't be for me.
Then knock, knock - someone was at my front door.

It was the police.

Initially I wondered why the police were there as the man flashed his badge at me. Then I saw the little tape recorder and thought it was mine and they were going to charge me for taping CSO X and other docs workers on the phone. All these thought happened so quickly and I was confused.

I let them into thedining table area to sit down. I was pleasant and acted in my professional work manner.

They said they were sent by docs to ask me some questions. They had a little tape recorder just like mine and started to tape the conversation.
They asked me stuff like my name, d.o.b., address, child's name, d.o.b. father's name and where child was presently.
They told me their name and I now have a business card of this detective.
(addit - recently his name has been in the local paper - he is Detective Senior Constable....).
He looked like an ex criminal (addit - going by what a criminal looks like on TV and factoring in my kind of work I am involved in) with a forced smile on his face. His colleauge was a young, tall and skinny girl.

They said I have the right to remain silent and that what I said could be used against me. The man asked me in my own workds did I understnad. They said I have the right to have a solicitior present. I then excused myself and called my solicitor. The secretary then called solicitor on their mobile who then rang me back and said 'say nothing and get them out of there...'.
I did chat to them briefly and asked if I could tape them back and produced my identical little tape player, they said no.
I relayed this message onto them and politely asked these police officers to leave my house.

I think this is another ploy of docs to try and get information to hang me by on tuesday's court hearing 11 April.
It smells like a conspiracy to me. What are they trying to prove? Something excapes me. Even to this day I am still confused. Even police searches were carried out on me.

Docs would now have their chosen psychiatrist report stating that is favourable towards reunification and then her phone call to them saying they were 'underhanded' in the way it was all being handled by them not to mention the fact of now sending child off interstate.

Upon reflection docs must have madly writtne all those affidavits back the same day before the court session in response to my numerous affidavits that were filed in court. Gee, they put a lot of energy into it. Affidavits from all of them (with a docs style slant).
Is this becoming a waste of the tax payers' money?

Why would all this case be so important to send out the plain clothes police to interrogate me just days before the court hearing?

11 April - court day. Number 4 time in court now.
There was all the affidavit material prepared from my side plus things like how I had enrolled child into 'All Saints" school from when child was 1 yo.
But there was plenty of new ammunition from docs side. CSO X put in some made up things, like me saying to child 'sorry, sorry I cannot lookafter you". That is pretty subjective! And even when I did have post natal depression when child was about 4 months old all the many photos show (document that PND did not impinge on my ability to care effectively for child - I have even got photos of cradle cap treatment, various days in cot, tummy time, nappy free time. Everyone who knows me knows I am a mad photographer and nothing escapes me.
CSO X wrote that I had not being on top of things since child's birth. More subjective stuff. I am wondering how deos one go to work part-time in a mental health ward, look after a small child alone, renovate the house, have an independent business as a baby sitter. I thought I was pretty high functioning myself!
CSO X wrote that I was more focussed on myself than on child. Wow where does she source her stuff from?
CSO X went on about me not having psychiatric follow up (for what?) and brought one of my GP's into it. I asked this GP later about this and he didn't seem to know what I was talking about.
CSO X wrote thatmy suicidal ideationhad not changed (despite me telling her and her supervisor I wasn't and then having told her on phone this again after this). Of course I have it on tape telling her before whe wrote this affidavit that I was not suicidal/ homicidal.
CSO X said that I needed to ahve those holidays back in February 2006 (when they took child off me) to 'sort myself out' yet I have proof that I put in for holidays some 6 months prior in 2005 due to the leave I was accruing. In fact I put in another leave application to reduce my ititial 6 weeks to only 4 weeks.
Source please docs to your affidavit material??
Then she said I told her I was going bakc to work full time andwould only be available for access visits after 4 pm. What? Souce please!
CSO X wrote that child 'needed a parent whom is able to demonstrate a dommitment to the therapeutic needs in relation to her issues with child's father' - wow I have th edaycare mother as the hand over person so that I had little to do with father as possible and had contact ordres in place which were updated by me in December 2005. Wow, I am not responsible for the abuse that comes out this man's mouth and his snide comments. Even the parernal grandmother said to me that father is difficult to deal with. Sorry another issue here and I am getting side tracked.CSO X went on about ' this is concerning to the department given that mother is supposed
to be on regular dosage of Zoloft to treat her current mental health issue'. She still didn't have any written medical evidence that I was supposed to be on Zoloft and was non-compliant with some medication regieme.
CSO X even brought my sister into it stating that 'mother had never wanted any assistance from her or some other family memeber since child's birth and that she was not well and she was very concerned abou ther caring for child'.Later I asked my sister about this and she denied it to me.Docs didn't recognise that my sister and her child were always over here and I often cooked up large amounts of freezer meals for her child and was doing this 4 days prior to docs interviewing me.
CSO X even got in about me ringing the after-hours abuse line (when I was very concerned about conditions my child seemed to be facing in foster care - starving and dirty) and put her twist on it.

The false evidence continued. I started to realise that the truth doesn't matter. It is who can be the biggest and most convincing liar in court. docs were excelling at it.
Remember I say docs have no end to resources to fight you in court.
Excuse the swearing but 'fuck the child, docs can't admit fault'. My solicitor said it looked like docs had rallied around CSO X in her fight against me. I couldn't help but feel it was getting personal.

Amazingly she was right when she indirectly fired that threat at me, via my mother, not to complain as it would all go against me.

There were numerous other things writtenthat were incorrect. CSOX even wrote that SCAN coming to visit me and 'expressing grave concerns for the welfare of the child'.
Incidentally, SCAN never visited me again s omuch for the grave concerns fo rthe child.
It was so weird that she was trying so hard against child and me being together. I noted that she had just graduated from uni some 6 months prior to that ill fated day Friday, February 10 2006.
And there were more twisted affidavits from the supervisor. Outright lies that enraged who she involved in her lies.

BUT in court docs NEVER mentioned that child was abused whilst in foster care ( and I still wasn't aware). CSO X actually wrote about child being happy in foster care!
They never mentioned that they had written to father's solicitor to support father's now separate case in the NSW Family Law for sole custody and were in effect trying to dump off this case.
I wasn't aware of this letter and abuse until later...."

ok, to be continued - if you want to hear and docs haven't had me shot dead before then! Again nothing like a bit of healthy paranoia when dealing with this government agency.

Again excuse all typos.

Good night and God bless.

And even though you can obtain a really good solicitor (I had a solicitor from a supposedly well reputed legal firm) docs are so clever and skilled at knowing what to put in and how to spice it all up to actually she 'she ain't willing and she ain't able' - I mean how that CSO X wrote mother said to child 'sorry, sorry I cannot look after you' and things along those lines.
And then they keep attacking you in court with this 'new evidence' and so of course you would have to take them back to court to prove this stuff spewing out of them can be proved to be rubbish. The subjective stuff that she was trying to say came out of my mouth is hard to prove. but what? Was she a fly on the wall or something whilst I was supposedly saying all these things to my child at that early hour of the morning.

Do you see what I am trying to say?

And what were the police going to do? charge me for thoughts that occurred during the middle of the night and at around 0400am? Never acted up during the day. I told the CSO X and her supervisor that these thoughts were ego-dystonic. I explained that this psychiatric terms meant that having these thoughts from fantasies, dreams were ego-dystonic as they were disturbing and very distressing. That is why I woke up and sat outside in the yard and cried. I was overcome by guilt and grief at having such thoughts.

So were the police going to charge me for 'thoughts are enough for us" as CSO X stated to me?
Well come on - I have just admitted it here on the net/ publicly so come and charge me!

Wow thisisgood, what you went through emotionally because of admitting to thoughts...

I was reading about mental health issues today and it having so much stigma to it which they are trying to break down so that people will seek help instead of hiding from it as this is a main barrier to mental health issues...

Guess who keeps the stigma alive...DChS! They in fact are doing no favours for the mental health and physicians' jobs by attacking people cruelly for admitting to needing help and looking into it...

What disgusted me about your case is that your little boy went interstate without you attending court for this...sorry but it is to be decided by a magistrate regarding this decision with your knowledge...but it seems like in this case they have just decided and gone with it...Do you know if a manager approved it at all?

Well I'm interested in hearing more so wear a bullet proof vest so I can get to read the next extract...

Have you received your files via FOI? It'll have the reason why SCAN came to your home and I can put a million bucks on that they lied to them too.

with child safety youa re better telling them nothing....in fact any counsellor they suggest, or psychologist will use what you say against them.......there is a forensic psychologist in Brisbane who is a very deceitful and dangerous men......apparently with all the little tags behind his name make him to be a dangerous man that abuses confidentiality along with the rest of that unhealthy culture...all paid by the gov.

The farsical Tribunal told my solicitor that he had no duristiction in the tribunal......I am going to name each one of those morons too...the corruption goes right up the line

Hi,
but don't name them out here in public yet. Wait for the right moment. Otherwise you will be hung dried and quatered by the government.
We are all on the same page as you - as I think you will know by now.
Just make sure you have you personal documentation ready to go when needed.
Don't jump the gun yet and end up shooting yourself! You've already been crucified by the government once.
Patience.

have been patient this long....a little longer is no problem to me......this is gooing to be well worth waiting for......

Hello again,

Continuation from my journal dated back to 2006.

"... during this court date, April 11 2006, there was lots of affidavit material prepared by docs after they received all the stuff prepared by me when presented to the court. They wrote furiously the day before with affidavits from all docs workers who could be involved.

There was an affidavit from the CSO X supervisor as well. I had met her just that once in a meeting with CSO X. But this supervisor had rung the child's day care mother when docs were in the process of coming to my house that Friday 10 February. She asked the day care mother how was mother this morning when dropping off child.
The day care mother unsuspecting anything was out of order (because I didn't present any different to usual) said something to the effects of how I was going on about the red back spiders outside in the drain (I'll explain in a minute).

The affidavit material from CSO X supervisor put works into the day care mother's mouth wit her staing that I was 'talking about there being red back spiders everywhere'; 'mother was carrying on and was presenting in as paranoid'.

As a mental health nurse this supervisor looked to be painting a picture as if I was hallucinating or detoxing off some substance (like someone in D.T's).
The day care mother had previously (previous court session) prepared an affidavit saying she never said all this stuff to docs. The supervisor came back with this affidavit this court session stating day care mother had said all this.

But I argue even if she did say this to docs on the phone, one must ask why insist ( as per supervisor's affidavit material) that the daycare mother said I was paranoid. The day care mother is NOT mental health trained, so what weight would it carry what she describes someone's mental state as paranoid without fleshing out just what she meant by this flippant comment.
Incidentally the day care mother to this day still denies that she called me 'paranoid' to this supervisor on the phone.

Now they (docs) have to justify their actions. Everyone can see that I am not 'mentally unstable' as docs frist wrote, so they must be out to justify themselves. I don't think docs initally knew that I worked in mental health (nor a trained mental health nurse) andtherefore have heaps of professional witnesses about my mood and mental state.
For all I care a lay person can call me crazy to the cows come home.

So what just was the story about the spiders anyway when I first dropped child off to day care that morning around 09.15am? Just to start to put this into context I will tell you.

That morning as I parked the car on the street outside day care mother's house. I went around to the side where child has to get out of car. I noticed as I was openning child's door and getting out child and kindy bag that there was a small drain leading into the gutter. It was full of cob webs and old dead cut grass and it was facing the western sun. I thought this could harbour a red back nest and that it would be terrible if a small child stepped into this and got bitten. Yeah, a safety issue.
When I went inside to daycare mother's house I discussed this with her. She said her husband had just sprayed the house recently and that no insect spray was left over. I said I could bring some when I collected child that same day. During the course of this conversation her adult son brought out a pet lizard (blue tongue?) and showed us all - kids and adults. It was a very tame lizard and he expressed his concern that pesticides would kill the wild life.

Hmm, so now you have this in context and if I am telling the truth (but I have this adult son and day care mother as my witness and of course there is the little drain thingo just outside her house that faces the western sun) and I implore you to use reasonable doubt too; but if I am telling you the truth I have to ask just how fucked up is this supervisor to have to go to extreme lengths to try and prove me as 'paranoid'. Maybe she should have asked me next time what to say as she could get my mental health professional experience to help her with her lies!

And then there was an affidavit from the woman who answered the docs phone on intake. But she failed to state that I rang up initially with a hypothetical question and then again ( a second time) asking the where about of my expected visitors that she promised me would come to talk to me.
Yes, how stupid was I to think that docs were like a parent line and you could ring up and have a whinge to them. Oh, she sounded to empathic and when she said 'would you like someone to come out to you and visit you?' Well then I really would have an audience to have a whinge to. Wow, what a service I thought.

I rang around 1pm to docs after I rang the (lame) father of the child. I felt indignant after I spoke to him and decided I would ring docs as I was sure they would give me an answer to my hypothetical question. Then I waited and waited and waited for docs to arrive. That is why I rang a second time and asked where were they? They did arrive at 5pm. But by now I was grossly apologising for them arriving so late. Can I get you a cuppa, drink of water?
But what did docs write into their first court papers (that must be the TAO or COA or something?). It read something to the effects of 'mother unable to be contacted and we are concerned regarding her whereabouts'. Well that was weird I was waiting at home and I had rung heaps of other people as well as my telstra phone bill would prove back then. At the time I thought they (docs) must have made a mistake, no one would write a deliberate lie - that didn't even enter my head.
Docs came out to my house 5pm Friday 10 february and I never received any paper work in the mail box until Monday 3pm ish. I didn't even know this was a court based thing. I was just plain confused. But of course I soon worked it out, that something was a bit fishy and not quite right.

So anyway during this April 11 court session docs said they now wanted to adjourn the case so that a family group meeting could take place. The judge an older man, this time said 'protection order in place unitil the family group meeting'.

My solicitor said to me later this is not good as family group meetings are for when there are bad cases of neglect and abuse.

I was gob smacked.
That afternoon I wnet to see the centrecare counsellor who said docs 'are paranoid' in their dealing due to bad press.
(I did not make that up!)
I still didn't understand what was going on. Loooking back I would have presented even more affidavitmaterial to the court namely ever person I worked with that week prior as I had a lot of dealing with about 20 staff due to lots of inservice attended that week. I can still remember who was there and what was going on.

Anyway after that court session and later at home I received a letter written by CSO X's supervisor that was adressed to father's solicitor in NSW supporting father's application for sole cusotdy. This letter is dated 10 April.

these dirty dealings become clearer to me.

It looks like docs were trying to wahs their hands of this case. I am left wondering if they always operate in this dodgy, unethical, unprofessional manner?

13 April 2006 - Access visit at the departmental playgroup at Mermaid Community hall. The old grandfather drove the child up here for the 400km round trip so that child and I could spend 2 hours together. Father was very rarely present during these future visits only the grandparents. It must have been very tiring for this 70yo man to do this as he did this trip interstate for the next 7 weeks on a weekly basis. I am grateful t othe grandparents for this.

Somewhere (if I search my diary I find the exact date) I am served iwth papaers to appear in NSW district courts as father is now fighting me in court for sole custody of child. Docs are supporting his application all the way and have co-ordinated it well!

9 May 2006 - Go to NSW (200km away) where father applying for sole custody of child.

I don't think docs understand and had calculated that whist father and I don't see eye to eye about father's proposed contact arrangements (issues from when child was 2 yo) that we could still discuss other issues about child. I don't think docs realised that father and I could have coffee afterwards. They must have thought we would completely ignore each other.
Remember (or factor into this story) tjat fatjer and I spoke for some 30 minutes on phone on that ill fated Friday 10 February just hours before docs decided to snatch and grab child.

Father worked out that docs were trying to hush it up.

Looking back it was an obvious flaw in their plan.

Tomorrow I will poat the journal entry that I wrote that 9 May 2006 when I discovered just what had happened in foster care to my child.

Story to be continued.

Hi, yes, kickemout we all have a story to tell that shows up the inadequacies of this organisation and that the government seems to be turning a blind eye to it. We are in this together.

I just looked at the forensic psychologists web page that i have a big beef about.....mmmm all his addys have disappeared.....I wonder if that happened after an email from me....I hope he is reading this forum....I bet there are others realled peed off at him.....too many letters after his name ...an academic dolt me thinks

Thanks again thisisgood for more journal entries...that bullet proof vest is doing us all favours...lol Your dealings and happenings with DChS sounds very similar to mine except the odd bit's and pieces of I have more than 1 child but I can soooooo relate to everything you have written...thank you for making me feel normal and not alone!

My main rule, and one which my children follow is lawful and within the realm of responsible parenting.

I simply instruct them to say "My mother told me never to talk to strangers".

Is this not what we teach our children? To never talk to strangers?

If my children don't want to talk to any DoCS workers, or they suspect someone who wants to speak with them is associated with DoCS - this is what they tell them.

This brilliant insight actually worked for me and frustrated the daylights out of DoCS workers in early 2006 who went to my childrens' school to talk to them. My children wouldn't even tell them what they had had for lunch.

The DoCS workers came back to my house afterwards and commended me for instructing my children to say what they said. It was laughable - DoCS couldn't do a thing about it and putting it in an affidavit would have made them look stupid.

SPOT ON

DOCS said via a letter to ??????? thanks to F.O.I that the kids have been SKILLFULLY COACHED, what a mole.
Another thing have you noticed that some cops will read you your rights and tell you the magic sentence that anything you say will be used against you and one second later they talk that crap they start asking you questions.
Hypocrits!

These DOCS scum are very cunning as if they see the kids that don't want to talk they twist the story around and start talking about anything and everything and once they start them talking they switch back to their original question they want to ask.

Absolutely!

Especially if the child says something that does not suit the DoCS worker's agenda.

DoCS workers will pick and choose the best information that suits their case and supports their request for whatever order they are seeking... Any information that backs the parents is quickly discarded and if it comes from an interviewed child the information is manipulated to show that the child is sticking up for the parent - forget the fact that the child is being HONEST.

Do you know this forum is the best therapy?.Why when you suffer a stroke it effects you but doing plenty of typing defiantly has helped me.

Absolutely.

It's the whole "getting it out" thing. A problem shared is a problem halved - or so they say.

It means a huge amount to other parents to not only learn that they're not rowing the boat alone, but that they are also being treated in the same barbaric way that other parents are being treated.

Unfortunately there is still a huge stigma around families being involved with DoCS and not enough parents are coming out of the closet (so to speak).

Honestly, there is no shame in it in this day and age because DoCS have got it so WRONG.

Not many people are aware - but they're not even doing the job they are meant to be doing.

DoCS was created in 1999 on a recommendation by the CMC after an inquest into child deaths in foster care to protect children who are already IN foster care - not rip more children out of families and put them in foster care.

DoCS have "broadened their horizons".

If it wasn't for NORMAL families with normal HUMAN parenting issues, CSOs would be out of a job... We keep them employed.

They won't go near children who are in serious need of protection. Too afraid of their workers being injured by a disturbed child or having the office bombed by a warped parent.

Did you know that the DHS in Victoria struggle to get leases for offices because real estates are scared of bomb threats?

Now that makes sense b/c I'm wondering why my little crap of so-called protection issues from an incident of abusing a CSO compared to severe dv, drug and alcohol issues and child abuse sex cases are so ignored it's unbelievable to the court staff and lawyers involved in them cases?!

I'm sorry but that is just so totally wrong that it's not funny. I appreciate that this forum is for when Child Safety get it wrong and target families that are not abusing their children, but to say that they do no good in our society is just out right crap.

They do go near children who are in serious need of protection. They put themselves in danger and harms way to protect these children. They have death threats put on them and their families to protect these children. They even get assaulted to protect these children.

I'm sorry but comments like that really piss me off.

I'm sorry Justiceforall, but unlike what your username indicates, this is not always the case...yes Child Safety have helped kids who are genuinely abused but not always at all especially where I come from and the abuse is told from the child to a teacher, seen by a nurse and counseled from a counselor, these people have to either mandatorily report or just report out of concern for the child.

Yeh a visit goes in place but if they come across hassles of any sort, they don't go back...and the abused child/n are still abused until they die due to dv, the mother dies due to dv or the child/n are severely abused sexually and physically!

Comments like Child Safety go near children who are in serious need of protection is not always true either.

A major counter balance is needed I'm telling you and anyone else who wants to disagree with me!

I know of plenty of cases over the last 3 years where children who were in serious need of protection have been helped. I know that out of these children a lot of them have been saved from being possibly seriously injured or mamed if not killed. I know of CSO's who have helped these children who have had their lives in danger because they did what was needed to be done to save these children.

I won't even go into depth about what traumas these children faced.

I'm well aware that there are families that slip through the cracks. But I have never come across a CSO who has not gone back to a family because they have run into hassles.

Child safety has it's place in society and anyone would be stupid to refute this... Sadly there ARE children out there who are being subjected to abuse and neglect by parents and they need help.

But what is becoming more and more obvious as time wears on is that abuse and neglect today is NOT what it used to be.

Back in the day abuse would be Little Johnny going to school with constant black eyes or fronting up at the hospital on a regular basis with broken limbs or needing stitches.

Neglect would be the emaciated child dressed in filthy clothing riddled with head lice who hasn't had a bath since Adam was a boy with a nose continuously pouring green muck.

These days the majority of what is considered abuse and neglect (which are umbrella terms) falls within the realm of normal parenting skills, social acceptance and common sense.

But if DoCS can get an order (and any order will do!) it brings the almighty dollar into the coffers of the office who is granted the order for the length of time the order exists.

The longer DoCS can maintain a custodial order on a child, the longer they are guaranteed tax payer's dollars... Yet by the time they have no choice but to return the child to his/her parents the original "concern" has been long ignored and left unfixed.

Through my own communication with parents dealing with DoCS it's become painfully obvious that the majority of parents dealing with these vicious CSOs are "soft targets".

We all get stereotyped... Put in a box that usually has at least 3 labels on it. It's almost like our characteristics make up a certain recipe for a particular stereotype.

I'd like to give you a few names of CSO's and a team leader who didn't go back!

Now for those cases your talking about Justice? I do hope those parents had a hard time seeing their children, a very hard time and that this was proven beyond a doubt that the parents either caused or allowed this abuse! that is the argument but it is known that people whether parents or what abuse children, a very sad fact.

But there are more than just a 'few' slipping through the cracks Justice b/c these CSO's won't go back and didn't go back!

rainbowchaser

I wasn't aware that Child Safety recieved tax payers money for the children that are on custody orders. What does the government say that this money is to be used for?

Hi,
Justice4All I am sure you have a point as we are aware you have plenty of experience in children and adolescent but from what I see both personally and professionally I have yet to see this side where docs are really helping out families.
I do hear rumour of it.
I deal with docs almost on a daily basis in my work.
I talk with ex CSO's and friends who work as assessing people to be suitable carers.
I am still convinced until otherwise that it is just a legal game the way docs are so heavy handed in what they do.

I'm sure there have been CSO's who haven't gone back. I just meant that I haven't come across any in the 3 years that I have been in my role.

Yes there are a lot slipping through the cracks. If I had things my way I'd try and save all of them, but it's impossible for one person.

LovingMyKids - how true you are.

I have been witness to a family who was visited by DoCS with no second visit... And the eldest child of that family was killed by her own mother a short time later.

Ok well it's just hard to take when your a parent going through this and see others not at all going through it when they should and that THAT child needs saving from 'risk' from that parents livelihood while my children need saving from illegal practices of DChS!

Good point LovingMyKids!

Just what about the children who need saving from docs unjust practices.
Tomorrow I will type out more from my journal. And it just echos this point.

Oh I second that!!!!!

Boy do I second that.

I struggle to get my children back - yet living directly across the road from me is a woman whom DoCS are familiar with who is an alcoholic that smokes pot and cigarettes inside her home and is involved in thievery.

I missed something somewhere...

Well in future I think I will keep all comments, suggestions and information to myself until it's asked for! hahaha

Ha ha, I am laughing too. You will get hammered on this site if you ever state that docs could ever be right in any little thing!
And yes Justice4All we all really do appreciate your input very much.
I am glad you are thick skinned and don't get offended easily!
Cheers.

Good night,
Talk to you all tomorrow.
I have to get some sleep.

One problem is that not enough people put up their hand to be counted.

Another problem is that too many people are all show and no go.

If a parent genuinely wants action, they need to be 100% committed to taking it... This also means they have to be prepared to bear their soul and have their "dirty laundry" aired and be able to withstand the flak that will come from it.

They also have to be prepared to put in the hard yards. Because it will take the hard yards to get to a point where any case against the government (which is who we are up against) can be actioned.

Also, parents who have court orders against them are legally unable to do a thing that will expose their child/ren to the possibility of being identified. So they can't make a move until DoCS is completely out of their lives.

we mustnt be harsh on them rainbowchaser...some have more courage than others, am sure that when they hear and see this they will come forward....we all know what a lonely road it is....and as humans we are all different in how we handle situations....and lets face it , the morons are experts at this, theyve been doing it for centuries...... and they hold the ace with their threats if their agents dont toe the line.....the identity thing is nothing but a cop out on their part...there are other ways of doing things....but that doesnt suit them.

Oh I wasn't being harsh, I was just stating fact.

And this has not only come from what I have observed but what I've seen within myself as well.

Actually the identity thing is a genuine law. Children who are in the custody of DoCS or are living at home but subject to any kind or order are legally protected from being identified in any way, shape or form. Not only are they physically protected from the relative who would abuse them, but their identity is also protected.

It is a fact and sad, but that is the way some people are.....they have the attitude that you cant fight city hall.....but this is the 2st century and we can.....there is power in the people, and the more that see there are things being done, they will come forward.

hi all
i have just found this site, so far it has confirmed what we are now going thru...
our seventeen and a half year old son split from his ex...the ex and her new man put my sons 5 month old daughter into hospital on several occassions (son was unaware) fractures ect: docs are involved (6 months) but so far have come up with one excuse after the other about why my son( who is the non-offending parent and who has a clean history) cannot have his daughter...age , willing or able the list goes on, every time it looks like we are getting somewhere they throw up more hoops for him to jump thru....we travel 5 hours every week so he can see her (one visit)...the ex and her family won't be getting her (so docs say) they have said time and again that my son will get her...the husband and i applied for kinship and were cleared for our blue cards but now because of a malicious phone call from a family member docs have put a stop to the proceedings and have said because hubby has been to jail (40 years ago at the age of 17) he is deemed as dangerous and that unless the son and i admit to hubby being dangerous they will have to start from scratch again...i am soooooo frustrated and sad for my son and granddaughter who are the innocent parties here...(my son has to live at home at the moment, due to an injury he is on unemployment)the son has been having un-supervised visits for the past month but i am betting that will change...they even came out and did a saftey inspection and said everything was fine ....the solicitor is still saying it's all going good (court ordered conferance in december)but these people scare the hell out of me...
chasing my tail wen

my grandchildren were given back to a repeat offender.....with a very long criminal history, they too said that the children could not return to either parent.....but his father has mates in gov, that make the records disappear....charges /allegations of sexual abuse against another chhild were never checked out , and according to him,re his latest partner, he used to have sex with her when she was ten yrs old and babysitting her......
nor was he charged by mermaid beach for carnal knowledge on my own daughter....hard to figure isnt it. That is only some of the details...on record.

hahaha yes indeed! I definately am thick skinned as I think most of the people on this forum are, or have to be after dealing with Child Safety! I'm glad that people are able to say how they feel about things and not be judged for it. I also like the fact that people stand up for themselves and what they believe in because I wouldn't want it any other way.

Nice thoughtful opinion Justice4all, your name rings true to your character! You've obviously seen some real cases of abuse and I'm sorry that there are kids out there who are getting abused!

Child Safety clearly have a role to play in society, let's hope that do get harder on those who are clearly abusing their or other's children.

Hi,

Wen - welcome to this forum. We want you to know that you are not alone. We will try to support you in anyway we can here. And we are sorry that your experiences have lead you here.

they are setting you up.....

No, it's not normal.

It's usual practice for a CSO to speak to those involved with a child in a "meeting" setting that includes the principal of the school, the teacher, the guidance officer if applicable, the chaplain too if necessary... Those who are involved with the child.

To speak to a teacher alone is NOT normal.

I don't think it's even legal.

I say this because even though the school may be obligated to abide by whatever order they have a copy of in the child's file - the principal of the school needs to be present at any interview to in the least support his staff member.

the education dept are also gov....and their role today is to dumb down the population....I think we are getting to educated , that is why they break their own laws.

I would expect that the CSO is doing the following...

~ Trying to establish how the child is doing in class and in the play ground.

~ Trying to establish what the child's education is like - how well or how badly they are doing.

~ Trying to gain information on how regularly the biological relatives are or were involved with the school.

~ Trying to possibly obtain access to the child's school file (some teachers keep the files in the classroom).

~ Trying to gain information on what the child's school lunches are like - if the child comes to school in or out of uniform - whether the uniform/clothing is clean or dirty.

~ Trying to find out whether the child attends school regularly - is often or always late - whether absences are mysterious or accompanied by a letter from the parent.

I would treat the knowledge of the CSO speaking privately with the teacher as a head's up... DoCS are very good at making something out of nothing.

It may be that it's common practice for the school to allow DoCS to speak with teachers alone... I would contact the principal and query them about that.

I've found that many schools actually have no idea where they legally stand in regard to DoCS and therefore follow the lead of DoCS even when they shouldn't.

I had an instance where the previous school my children were attending was absolutely ignorant. They wouldn't make a move until they got the green light from DoCS.

I ended up writing a very terse letter to the principal and informing him that I maintained guardianship of my children and if I gave the approval for X to occur then it was to occur and had nothing to do with permission from the carer or the CSO.

i would suspect that they are fabricating more evidence against you for their equally corrupted tribunal mob....these dolts told my solicitor he had no duristiction in the tribunal....hows that for justice?

I've never been to the Tribunal and I really don't know much about it.

But if DoCS want to spout about jurisdiction I'll play that game.

Last week I took my solicitor and my barrister to a reunification plan meeting and both of them were WELL out of their jurisdiction. LOL

My guess kickemout is that DoCS do not like your solicitor!!!

when you get there you are in for a shock, they are working with the dpt and are nothing but a pack of corrupted nobodies with a ticket to give hell to anyone whom dares take their case that far......

Wow, sounds like fun... Not.

I'll never get to the Tribunal. I'm at reunification and the only people who can fail the plan is DoCS and they know it (kudos to my barrister and an air tight reunification plan).

If DoCS fail the plan, we go straight to trial and DoCS are well aware of it.

what is needed is public meetings of demand to hold them accountable

Unfortunately they can't be held accountable for all their failings. They're covered by the Child Protection Act 1999. It's written in the Act that they can not be made accountable.

Only certain things they can be made accountable for, but that's through the CMC.

The CPA '99 needs to be completely revised.

Oh, they revise it every few years... But only single words are changed. No sections, paragraphs or lines are ever changed.

International law holds more weight than ammnended crap which only serves to protect the gov offenders.....the problem is governing bodyies have too much say.....when they break their own laws then there is no law.....only thugs

Yes - that holds true with DoCS too.

Until CSOs leave...

Then they are fair game!!

While a CSO is employed by DoCS - DoCS has their back and will close ranks to protect that worker.

But if a CSO moves to employment elsewhere - they can be civilly sued and DoCS won't touch it.

and they are very easily found.....I know where all concerned are in my case.....and look out whenever i run into them.....I have a very loud voice, and am not intimidated by these morons....bottom line is ...all those up the line are as accountable, and condone this serial behaviour.

LOL

Go the loud voices!!

My loud voice contributed to my supposed Bi-Polar Disorder (I tend to get very loud when ticked off).

But, according to my barrister, I'm "boisterous".

Yes, the upper rungs of the DoCS ladder are where the problems arise.

I have had the same Team Leader for over a year now. But through her I've had 5 different CSOs. Originally I had CSOs who had the "ability" to handle an opinionated parent (what a joke).

Each time I got into the head of a CSO, the worker was changed.

The current CSO that I have has spent over a year letting everyone else talk for her. If she was ever asked something in a meeting - she would look to another person to answer the question.

It's only been this month that she's found the ability to talk and not only has she opened her mouth - but she's pulled rank on her Team Leader.

My barrister reckons my CSO is the best ally that I have at DoCS (the jury is out on that one). She reckons that this particular CSO is really trying to get my girls home... We will see.

id like to see those morons take one of those ridiculous tests.....how many would be found to be incompetent....lets face it ...they arent normal....or this crap would not be happening.....

They're not normal, they're brainwashed.

Not to mention that they're unhealthy, illiterate, many talk with a speech impediment and their enunciation and grammar is deplorable.

"What I done was arksed the carer if she can supply a healthy snack for X and she arksed me to arks you not to feed X processed food".

It's not illegal for a CSO to speak to a school teacher or any other professional alone. It doesn't need to be in the setting of a meeting either.

They can talk to the teacher before the child or foster carer arrives, or even after the meeting has been held.

I'm sick of this professional crap! people that think their better than a average person.

Anyone can be a professional at something, anything or noting. Professional is just a title (and probably one that is over used).

Yes that is very true.

I use the term "professional" lightly. Anyone can indeed be a professional.

Hmm, what would that make us? Professional child abusers?

Now there's a title!

In the eyes of DoCS that is all we are - regardless of the fact that we might have been forced to leave our jobs or forced to take extensive time off work that the government certainly doesn't compensate for.

If you're working and need to be at your job instead of a meeting - you have no interest in the welfare of your child.

ok, excuse my ignorance. What tribunal? What are you talkig about? Please explain to me - thanks.

Children's Services Tribunal.

I think most states have them - the one for QLD is in Brisbane.

It's a body of professionals from different fields (I think 5, but perhaps 3) who will hear a parent/child/caregiver/relative/foster carer (anybody really) and make a decision to uphold a DoCS decision or recommend it be thrown out.

People need to meet certain criteria before they can go before the Tribunal.

professional thugs is more the term

Yes, thugs who are addicted to their own power.

I pity the parent who gets the newbie CSO who is gungho about impressing their superiors and progressing up the career ladder... They're the worst kind.

I pity any parent dealing with any officer of this Department let alone any other government dept.

hey guys iam 12 and at my school i have a girl named Emma she was removed from her home with DOCS She hated her mother so TODAY i was talking with this boy with emma so this boy said my dad will hit me if i tease him Then The Girl Emma Said The Boy NEEDS DOCS i Replied Docs Are evil she said no they arnt so i said well think what every you want They Brainwashed you so i Think she is Brain Washed and she is so upsest with DOCS So when they Interview Them I think Thye Brainwash Them those evil idiots

You are a very bright lad or lady, especially for 12...it's good to see your looking out for other kids...good on you...

All I can say is out of the mouths of babes....comes the truth! Jesus knew what he was talking about didn't he?!

yes he did iam a lad lol but this girl really makes me feel slack for her .

Yeh well I don't think another word comes to mind but brain washed so I think you got that one right...make sure you don't get brain washed...do you know what to do with stranger danger?

Well your not doing it, your talking to me, it's nice to see that you consider me safe enough to talk to...but please becareful, especially on sites...it's good of you to have your say here, nice to hear from you...

Hi,

BINGO - and why did I say that?

Because some pages back I read where Ms Rainbowchaser said that we can legally pursue a CSO once they leave the department and work for another department.

Is this true information?

I will personally look into this for myself.

And if this is true well THANK YOU.

LOL

Yep it is true information. But it has to be done civilly.

I have enough evidence on a CSO and I am sure a lot of us have too.

These people don't work for docs forever you know.

CIVIL ACTION.

That's right... They're lucky to last 2 years in the job... They burn out very quickly.

if you know any friends that are under them tell them to let their family know abut this site......and any that are 18 that have been through the rubbish they put them through.....be good for some people to hear of their experiences.....I know many who hate them for what they did to them.....so much for " the best interest of the child"....wait til they are old enough to sue em.....

LOL

A child can sue DoCS at any age... Especially if the child is over the age of 12.

A lot of parents aren't aware of Children's Legal Aid.

A child can also apply to have the order they are under revoked or amended.

yeh but if that child has any mental health issues, I think the criteria and rules are the same, no legal aid.

I'm not entirely sure.

I know one of the challenges is the ability to give the child the opportunity to even speak to a legal rep.

Youth workers won't make a move without DoCS approval. DoCS won't make a move if they know a child wants to present a challenge to the courts. Carers are just completely convinced the child is abused and won't even give a child's challenge a second thought.

Hi,
The following is a continution from my personal journal, it follows in from my journaling dated 26 Ocober. It is around page 6 on this same topic.

9 May 2006

Today I have driven 200km into NSW for the court hearing where the father wanted to get sole custody of child. It was adjourned as per plan. The judge said something to the effect of not being aboe to rule on this request until the matter in Queensland (with docs) is finalised. It has been adjourned until 13.6.06. The judge seemed as perplexed by it as was the solicitor representing me. Afterwards my solicitor said that NSW docs can only keep a child for 2 weeks and if no evidence is evident then the child must be returned to their home.

I woke at 2.30am and couldn't go back to sleep. I decided to start driving at 4.00am incase something happened and so Iwould still make it on time. I was super early.

It was very chilly when I first arrived. I watched as all the people arrived to go to court. It was a long and tedious morning.

After court the father and I went for coffee. Father asked me whilst we were walking down the street if I knew that child was abused whilst in the foster home and docs are trying t hush it up. At first I thought I wonder if father is making thjis up to get me upset and make me feel more guilty.

Father told me that on the 5 April 2006 when they (father and paternal grandparents) went to collect child that docs workers took child to the toilet and noticed that child had 2 bruises on his bottom cheeks.
This resulted in child being taken to the local public hospital, inspected by the doctors, reported on and hotographs being taken of his buttocks.
Docs never reported this to me.

Some of my first thoughts were I hope they don't think I inflicted that onto child during my access visit. Apparently child told father that he was smacked for pooing his pants.

Shit I am angry.

Then father started going on at me verbally in the coffee shop. I told him to stop but soon the conversation got back to father getting angry with me again.

Father said we could get child back and have 50/50 share care. I said to father but you wrote in your application about me having supervised visits.

I said 50/50 care wouldn't work due to the state thing (NSW/Qld).
Father said 1 of us could move.
Father started to have a go at me about me talking to docs in the first place, it was my fault as I rang them.
Father agreed that we don't get on and all this is a domestic/ family dynamics issue. I said but you know I have never hurt child and father said something about he doesn't know now and about the scathing report that docs had written against me.

After a short time I had enough of listening to father and knew it wasn't going to get better. I decided to get up and leave, so I cut it short, excused myself and got up to leave.
The father chased after me and said something about being civil. I said I am leaving whilst it is still civil. I said see you Thursday and walked off. I then drove off back to Queensland.

As I drove I chewed over things in my mind. Especially what father had just informed me of.

Just as I was pulling into the drive way of my home docs new case manager CSO S rang me. We talked for ages about the impending family meeting. I asked her about the bruises on child's buttocks. She said she didn't know of this but would look into it.
This was of interest to CSO S as S is now child's case manager and all this information on the bruises should be in that file she has. She didn't get this handed over to her.

S said she needs a report5 from my psychiatrist that I am stable and taking medication. (They can shove their fucking doctors and medicationsup their arse - I am no different to how I ever am - it doesn't get any better.) The CSO S saw that my solicitor emailed her and stated she could not make it to the family meeting on 11.5.06. SCO S said she strongly suggests I have legal representation there. S also wondered about how to facilitate more access visits and wondered if phone contact would be suitable. I said this would be inappropriate.

I came inside and rang my solicitor who said she was ready to shoot loads of bullets at docs in the way in which they are handling this.
I told solicitor now about the bruises on child and asked can she subpoena the files from the hospital. She is going to. I could just about get this hosptial information myself being a Queensland Health employee.
solicitor said she wants to contest the whole thing that docs will now try and adjourn tuesday 16.5.06 court case until a new family meeting takes place and then solicitor is going to argue for the child to be placed back with the mother (me) ASAP.

I am angry. I am really troubled. Lately I have stopped sleeping. I am so angry about this whole process. Sure I rang docs but look at how they have carried on. I am workse that I have ever been. Not to meniton the financial pressure on me now. It is all completely fucked up. Absolutely.

I rang the paternal grandmother to enquire about child and the bruises. I have this conversation on tape. Sure enough it happened. I told this granmother the gorp meeting is now cancelled and post-phoned until 24.5.06.
I had to tape this incase somehow this was turned against me and everyone denied it and tried to make out I was confabulating and paranoid!

I am very angry. It is all fuming inside me.
Later I will ring my mother, child's godmother, daycare mther and colleague/ friend.

I rang docs in Brisbane at the Alderly branch andspoke with an .... who is going to send me the policy about whether docs should be notifying me about the abuse since I am the parent.

Solicitor rang me and said that CSO S said child is effectevely in the paternal grandparents care.
Solicitor said this is iteresting as all her documentation states that father is the carer.

I am angry about the way in which docs have handled this. Now to find out that child was smacked that hard that he had bruises on his that lasted a week or more according to the doctor. What did child do that was that bad? Nothing I say. He is a good kid.

Good on you docs are taking a child out of a perfectly good home and putting him with bullies.
FUCK YOU DOCS!!!!

8.25pm later

I have spoken with mum, colleauge/ friend, child's godmother, and now my flatmate. Flatmate said how child has been taken from a safe home environment and placed int an abusive foster home care since docs involvement.
Flatmate thinks I should not have given my name to the docs branch at Alderly. I said they would send me the policy about whether I should be notified or not so needed my address.

Mum said be as sly as everybody else, get your facts together.
Mum and I cried on the phone. Mum said she wanted to tell my sister as she was the one who said child should go to foster care.
Mum was wondering if docs become aware that I now know of this that child's hospital chart may go missing. Mum said she had read too many books.

Child's godmothersaid it is not my fault that I rang docs. She said the fact that I utilised my supports indicates that I am pro-active in my health issues. Godmotheragrees that a lot sof what is written is subjective from CSO X upon what I reported to her during that initial interview on 10.2.06.
Godmother thinks that CSO X needs supervision and this is a miscarriage of justice.
(P.S. Child's Godmother and I worked together for the past 6 years - we knew each other very well.)
Godmother thinks that docs could now write into child's file and patch it up.
Godmother said about docs stuffing up our lives andif theywere concerned about the mother's mental state then what have they put in place for reunification.

I said to my colleague/ friend person how CSO X has written on the 10.4.06 ( remember abuse reported on 5.4.06) that child was happy in the foster home. Wow.
Colleague friend of mine said (sarcastically) if child was happy in the foster home then he must have been ecstatic being with me.

Colleague friend of mine said this is like the church that has abused children in their care and now decades later there is all this litigation going on as a result. Maybe this will happen with docs one day.

Colleague friend of mine said didn't father jump up and down and ask docs about their accountability. She asked if father is deemed as a suitable carer where doesn his concerns about child's welfare lay?
Colleauge said why don't I get hold of this doctor's report and take it to the police to report a case of child abuse. I think this is a good idea.
Colleague said she wonders what the course is taken to see if people are suitable foster parents. We wonder if the other chlden have been taken off these people since it was found that my child was abused in that home. My child described there being about 4 kids there.

We are all in shock. Everyone is thinking this could be a case against docs in the way this ghas been handled.

Did docs want to sweep this under the mat, send child off to the father's grandparents to live forever and close their books?

I am angry. Now I have taken a sleeping tablet to try and settle me down. I know that chid is at least safe with the grandparents down there.

What fucking game are docs playing at?

Fuck, what a day. this thing just keeps taking on a life of it's own.

tomorrow I will ring solicitor first up and ask her if she had got hold of a copy of child's medical file as I feel iti si urgent.
I will ring docs at Alderly to see if they have clarification on the policy.

I really do need to continue to document fo rhcild's sake so that he can read all this later as an adult.

Tablets taking effect and i ma tired. It has been such a draining day.

Work tomorrow. Child has an access visit with me on Thursday (2 weeks since we last saw each other) and court on Tuesday.

Again I say for the last account today - thanks docs for taking me son off me ( deciding that I am so mad that I can't look after him and therefore a risk to him) so that he could be abused in care.

FUCK YOU!!!!

Sorry child that this happened to youl I hope it does not have lastin geffects on you. Who
picks up the pieces of this wounded family from docs involvement?

Hi,

I will write more in these columns another time. But apparently CSO S stated that the abuse and bruising was not in child's docs file anywhere!!
She was looking into why this is not in her file at the time she told me.

And not surprising to anyone who reads this forum regularly that CSO S got removed from my case and the original CSO X was reinstated!!

Looking back in reflection CSO S was doing her job properly and I think she would have been a good advocate for the children in her care.

I think CSO S has left now.
I deal with this same docs branch these days at work.

I don't think the CSO x's supervisor can ever afford to leave docs if it is true about being able to sue these docs worker's once they leave this organisation on civil grounds!

Anyway more of my journal is coming.

And remember I worked in mental health as a trained mental health nurse the whole time this went on. I was probably in charge of the shift the next day when I mention I am going to work. It is just incredible.

I was never diagnosed with a mental illness and am not on any psych. drugs. docs didn't know what they were talking about. I present the same today as I did back then.

So I could prove that if you have a bad day docs will deem your child as being at risk from you and then take your child away from their home for 7 months like they did to me.

If any docs workers are reading this - please make sure your practice is accountable and not dodgy like what happened to us! Some of you probably talk to me a lot in work and don't realise it is me that had a child removed for 7 months.

Sorry to swear again - but fucking idiots with too much power ( I am referring to the corrupt workers).

i guess thats why we never get the FOI files....too much evident corruption within the files....

You know, I had that exact same thought.

Not to mention that a LOT of what is in there would give our legal reps ammo against them and their "case".

FREEDOM of INFORMATION? Yeah right!

YES I KNOW ITS IN THE WRONG THREAD! But why not.

Guys and Gals, since our great Premier is on the money grab trail again and she is short a bit of cash by giving it all to the Department of Child Safety, by increasing fines for everything including of course traffic fines, I would like to remind all what is written below and what I have been reading on other sites, where more and more people are now warning motorists with these speed cameras. See, if you flash your head lights, they grab you for that, by using your high beams in a built up area, but if you just turn your head lights on and off and on and off, is that breaking the law? Well not the law of using your high beams in a built up area, but unfortunately this gangster of a Premier that we have has her own law, which is worse than any other law we have in this state and you know what thats called:

DENYING THE GOVERNMENT REVENUE.

(JUST A REMINDER TO WHAT HAPPENED A WHILE A GO)


Well watching Channel Nine News last night (15/10//07)I just caught a segment about Queensland police getting caught in their own speed cameras. It was interesting once again thanks to the freedom of information ACT and a good reporter that reported this but I would like to add my two bobs worth.
See what attracted my attention to this story was the high percentage of police whilst on or possibly off duty that were booked for speeding but it was the case of an outrageous percentage of them that write a letter to the department with a reason why they were speeding and they get off. Now as I said I just caught this story by a second so I don't exactly remember the percentage that get off but it was high and I can tell you this that the average Tom Dick and Harry that has been caught speeding has got BUCKLEY'S chance of getting off as easy as the off or on duty Police do so how do they do it? Haaaaaa easy!!

No I'm not saying where I got this info from but some of us unfortunately have relatives or friend in the Police service and yes they do enjoy a drink at a BBQ and yes the drink has a habit of loosening a few tongues and this is what I over heard at a Bathurst 1000 party that got my ears ringing.
See what is getting around the traps in the Police service is just say an off or on duty Police officer is driving his or her private or Police car on a public road and in a split second they unfortunately get zapped by a speed camera for speeding and they know that they have been busted what they do is accelerate and pull over the first car that just happen to be in front of them.
Now they will pull the car over for any reason like Sir/Madam why were you drifting in your lane, or your brake light are coming on and off or whatever stupid or silly reason they can use to pull the car in front of them over so they can get details, times and whatever needed so the off or on duty cop can write his or her letter saying this was the reason why he or she was speeding.
I find this what I heard absolutely disgusting and outrageous that we have a law for the common person and we have a loophole for the Police.
What I would like for the General public to do is if you pass a speed camera and you are not speeding whatsoever and for some reason just after or kms later down the road you get pulled over for whatever reason by anyone on or off duty and they just happens to flash a badge at you and ask for your details which you give him or her ask for his or her name and service number (They could refuse or ask why?), also get details, time, "etc" of the car they are driving and number plate and report them to the CMC (Crimes Misconduct Commission)You never know you could be lucky, See if the CMC investigate and it just happens the Police officer gives them the same excuse (I bet the excuses would be similiar)as they put in their letter to get off the fine the CMC will know that the Police Officer in question is on the nose, and after this message on this forum gets around they might think twice before pulling this swifty again.
Remember all, the way I look at it the Police are not above the law and they should be treated equally like the rest of us.
Now let me see where is the phone number for the CMC.

cMC are as corrupted as the rest of them.....one gov dept is exactly like the rest......if its gov funded/run....then it is corrupt......

Word:
even the ones that claim are not government funded, will also refuse and reject to offer any help and just do that Indoor sports of Buck passing.

[quote=JusticeForAll]There has been some discussion about the legalities of DOCS interviewing children.

DOCS can interview children without parents and a support person present. If DOCS come to your home to interview you and your children and you allow them to speak to your children alone, then they will do so. If you tell DOCS that you want a support person present, DOCS have to do so, but only if they believe that having a support person will not obstruct the interview process with the children. This support person can not be the person who is thought to have caused the harm to the children either.

This is not what happened to my children. Whilst I was at work they knocked on my door, didnt show ID and asked if they could speak to them all. They interviewed the children without me present, and they even said to my youngest, we havent got much on him, we need more dirt.... My 17yo daughter was so scared they were going to take my 12 year old there and then, so she phoned me whilst i was at work.
They entered my premises without my permission, and interviewed the children without my permission. Where is that legal...I call it manipulation.

Yet, When I asked for a interviewing. I get a close door. Why?.
These bastards wont say jack, until they are in a court room and even then will still lie.
Thats where I want my interview, In a court room.
Pricks know they got nothing on me, so they Attach WJ:
Now her family are left as road kill.
and they still wont Take me to a court on their claims of me.

Words are just words till action is done..A Class Action. Civil Action JUSTICE.

Yes, I hear what you guys are saying. I can imagine just how it all goes on.

No, TIG:.
You cant Imagine, all the going ons.

Can you Imagine, a Soul, sitting at home alone.Forced to be in that position.
And I mean, Alone.
Not alone and still have your kids, Not alone and nobody comes over.
Alone.
What relationship I had with WJ:, is going further down the shithole. might as well Kiss that good bye, to.

Not even responding to this one.....

why not, Make a good topic..

shows the conflict inflicted by docs, How does one handle the burden of juggling a relationship that is hell bent being attacked by DOCS.?.

How does one handle the emotions of a separation,that was Ripped apart, and a distance wedged between ?.

Children are not the only ones that suffer at the hands of the intruding of DOCS. The man and woman do to.
This is Us, This is what is happening, to us. Not us doing it to us, But DOCS in the shadows playing with lives.
This is the result of that hardship. The testing of who will break first.
Yes, I have this carefree attitude, So what. it happened many times before, whats the difference now ?.
I know how to lose love, I dont know how to win it, anymore.

What?. not a good topic?.
or ya all rather, think, nothing like this happens?.

Well, it did, happen, our whole world has been ripped apart, and yes, so have we!!!!, U let Docs win between us too...

How'd I let them win.????

From word go!, I told you all of it,From word go, I told you I cant BE in a relationship with a woman with children.
What did you do???. You did every thing to get me.
And Yes, Peter frkhead Lindsey, was the prick that told me and the Last partner, Leave townsville and dont have kids..
I thought and hoped that SA and you would be the new beginning.
The Rest you know. Till you started getting Jealous and the lack of trust. let me point out one of those lack of trust, Radio Rentals.
I got no one here telling me to leave you. You Have.
I got no one sep you to think of, how many ways I want to hug and kiss you.
Cos! of me, your whole family is now under the spot light and they left me in the dark.
They, DOCS, dont care if we are not together. all they care about is how they going to take V from you, and then T's new born. Thats what your concerns should be.
Next week, I miss out on a court date for my son, They dont care,whether I turn up or not.I wont ever get a phone link up,even tho I requested it.
A week or so after that, your in court. and what happens if Family SA get their way?. and take V.?. You will crumble.
Yes, I some how became immune after the second stealing of my son and the removal of the partners. hence why you say I dont care. How and why should I fight to keep something when I know it will go.?. or be taking away like the rest.
You want to be with me, Then you have to really understand me, to why those walls wont come down.
Here I live in fear, Cos! I know what can and did happen in this city to me.
I frking Hate going outside, I frking Hate going to the shops, I hate seeing new borns with a parent, I frking Hate looking at couples with a new born and I frking really hate hearing the sounds of a new born baby crying.
I didnt Let DOCS win, My stinking past that Im told to move away from,only to be brought back up by DOCS, Is the Issue to why we are where we are.
They are even using your past that you were told to move on with.
Its the past crap that is used to destroy what is for today.
No, I didnt let DOCS win.