Well, in all my years of either watching or going to the Bathurst 1000, this is the most disgraceful act I have ever seen. Come on Fords, you can do better than this!!!.<br />I cannot believe that a driver with a dislodged door which was slammed into by a Ford (John Bowe) and poor old Mark Skaife with 15 laps to go in second place was Black flagged to come to the pits to secure the door. Now, it was clearly seen that this door was not going to open any further than it was, and to my disgust FPR and Cat Racing(Ford Performance Racing and John Bowe)had to put a whinge in.<br />Is this the only way you can get up a place To me this is a desperate pathetic outfit that is not acting in a sportsmanship way and in the interest of motorsport, what a bunch of losers, To me this is a disgraceful way to gain a lousy position and put Mark Skaife out of the way.<br />Trust me this will not be forgotten, and if this is the way that Ford (FPR) want to play there will be repercussions.<br />WHAT A DISGUSTING DISPLAY, I am lost for words, go to hell FPR I will do my best to stop any sales of FORDS.<br />A Black day for motor racing.<br />Phil <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/default/mad.gif" />

I will keep it brief but tomorrow I will be not placing an order out for replacement of our Ford fleet, yes 8 utes, two sedans.<br />Reason! For what happened today, Like Phil said, is this the only way you can gain a place?, how desperate they are.<br />I will let the Ford Dealer Know EXACTLY why we will not be going ahead with the deal and they can send the details to FPR.<br />I will be instructing My Office in Melbourne to do the same. And I encourage any company owner that has Fords who is an ethical person to do the same.<br />What a bad way to get a second place.<br />George

Phil/George<br />What desperate way to gain one place, as far as I am concern most of the ford drivers are fucked always winging, FPR that SCUM do you really think you have made a gain, piss off.<br />The door was not going to open any further, look at the video again and it looks as there was a some sort of a strap in position anyway.<br />This now will start a war between Holden and Ford and like Phil said its not in the interest of Motorsport, Its not the Stewards that bought it to attention, its the little tell tail wankers in FPR that bought it to attention, THATS THE FUCKING PROBLEM, IT WILL BECOME PERSONAL NOW.<br />Fred

Fred<br />Never truer words said, if the Stewards made the decision well fair enough, but to have the little boys racing to the towers with their little hands up saying sir, sir, sir, Mark has his door open can you call him in please, but don't bring him in now as he is still too far away and we can't catch him, but if we get a pace car which will bunch them up BLACK FLAG HIM INSTANTLY.<br /><br />It's a BAD DAY, this will only start a war between Holden and Ford and it will become personal now and as far as I am concerned, What a cheap shot! Its time HRT warm up their lawyers<br />Phil <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/default/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/default/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/default/mad.gif" />

Get a clue.<br /><br />"Now, it was clearly seen that this door was not going to open any further than it was, and to my disgust FPR and Cat Racing(Ford Performance Racing and John Bowe)had to put a whinge in."<br />1. I guarantee you HRT would have lodged the same complaint in a reversed situation. It is the only professional thing to do. The car was clearly breaking the rules and if a team didn't push this to their advantage they wouldn't be doing a good enough job. <br />2. John Bowe has nothing to do with FPR or CAT. <br />3. You don't know the door wasn't going to cause problems. So often cars are pulled in for minor things that likely cause no threat at all, but they have to be on the safe side. Skaife was lucky not be called in at the end of Sandown to fix his safety light (instead receiving a post-race $7000 fine, which was also lucky). This time he was lucky officials didn't deem his door a problem to begin with. It was just his bad luck they did see it as a problem when the field bunched up (note that a black flag can't be issued while the safety car is still out) and a protest lodged. <br /><br />"Is this the only way you can get up a place To me this is a desperate pathetic outfit that is not acting in a sportsmanship way and in the interest of motorsport, what a bunch of losers, To me this is a disgraceful way to gain a lousy position and put Mark Skaife out of the way.<br />Trust me this will not be forgotten, and if this is the way that Ford (FPR) want to play there will be repercussions.<br />WHAT A DISGUSTING DISPLAY, I am lost for words, go to hell FPR I will do my best to stop any sales of FORDS.<br />A Black day for motor racing."<br />Do you even follow motor racing? I don't think the actions of FPV can be faulted at all. They would have been at fault if they didn't lodge a complaint. It was unlucky and the officials probably should have brought Skaife straight in.

Oh my god, <br />I hope your not an actual administrator of this site, <br />this thread is pathetic.<br /><br />Firstly, with the comments about the Ford Motor Company and FPV, to <br />think they have anything to do with the decisions FPR and the rest of the Prodrive team make is just ludicrous. They are a seperate entity, and do nothing other then sponsor the team. Are you going to stop buying Castrol oil now because they also sponsor the CAT car?<br /><br />The door was broken, it was a safety issue, which everybody knew (including HRT). The Team Manager went down to the officials to discuss the situation, who decided to let the car stay out on track while closely monitoring the situation and deciding on the appropriate action. A few teams complained about it, and after a few laps, an official complaint was made by FPR. HRT #1 was black flagged because of the pace car bunching the cars together, and therefore posing a threat to surrounding competitors. David Besnards car (another FPR car) had a similiar thing happen to it a few weeks ago, and weren't allowed to continue in the race until it was fixed. The standard of the rulings had been set, and thats it.<br /><br />If anyones to blame here, its the officials, and HRT themselves. Not Ford, Not FPV, Not your local Dealer, and not the fans. Theres nothing to get "personal" about here. If anything, the officials should have bought Skaife in as soon as it happened, not waited 15 laps. The car was in a clear breach of the safety regulations. Perhaps it was Grech's fault for persuading the officials to "monitor the situation", instead of black flagging straight away. There is no argument against the ruling, only the timing of it.<br /><br />Saying this, HRT knew it was a 50/50 situation whether they would be black flagged or not, and had a perfect opportunity to come in and fix it on their own accord, and at minimum loss of time and track position during the last safety car period. They took the gamble, and on this occasion, they lost out. The same thing happened at Sandown with HRT's failing electrical system. Again they were in breach of the safety rules with no rain lights being displayed while wet weather tyres are on. They took the 50/50 gamble, and it paid off (with only a $7000 fine after the event).<br /><br />Don't think for a minute that if the situation was reversed, HRT wouldn't have made an official complaint. Infact, any team out on the track would have done the same thing.<br /><br />I must have missed the section in your post's about Steven Richards punt of John Bowe, or Tanders, all without a penalty? This also destroyed a chance of a good finish with the OzEmail car. What about Perkins safety car impersonation for about 20 laps, allowing Murphy to get away to a 20 - 30 second lead?<br /><br />Bathurst is always full of controversy, but to go on about it like you have been, is just, as I said before, pathetic.

It looks like we have 2 Ford Lovers above me!<br />Well I was at Bathurst with my Boy friend and I am a Ford supporter mainly because he drives a Mustang, now I know nothing about cars but I know what my ears were hearing. We were in the pits after the race concluded next to the FPR team and one of the FPR People with joy was running and said very clearly "Get on to the scrutineers, we have to get Murphy disqualified" Now I asked my boy friend what are they talking about?, and by the sound of it they were trying to find anything to get that car disqualified so the Seaton/Lowdnes team would get the No 1.<br />Now I don't know if this is a norm these days that teams become women and go crying to the tower just to advance a position, but my personal opinion is its not in the interest of motor racing.<br />You know all you guys out there complain about us gals being whingers and dobbers, it now looks like you guys are out there doing the same.<br />I have to agree with Phil, this in not in the interest of motor sports. It will now end up in the gutters because if someone did that to me I would spend the next 10 years getting back at them.<br />Now you guys above might think you are experts on cars, but are you going to buy one this Monday morning?.<br />But by the sound of it GEORGE above won't be buying any Fords. You must look at it in the general public way not like you two experts above do, the average Tom, Dick and Harry would have seen the HRT No 1 car coming second and to be pulled in by the officials is not the problem, its the pathetic whingeing of a FORD teams in general that puts pressure on the officials to act.<br />Because the average person is limited in their interpretation of the rules (possibly 95% of the viewers on television), they will only see the FPR team and other FORD teams doing the whining and that can affect sales especially to the group over a certain age that still have morals and thats the group with the money.<br />And tell me do you honestly think putting pressure on the scrutineers so they can find some mud to disqualify the Murphy car is not in interest of motor sport.<br />I am a Ford supporter like my boyfriend is but it left a bad taste in my mouth for what I heard.<br />Cathy

Cathy<br />I have never agreed with you on anything but for the first time since I have been on this forum I totally 100% agree with you.<br />The public will see it different, all they will see is a team complaining to the officials to have the car in front removed.<br />And like you said is very true most of the older generation that have a interest in motor racing or maybe only watch this race only once a year will be disappointed on these sleaze tactics used.<br />the Officials know what there doing, other teams should bud out, and I agree It will put bad blood between the Manufactures.<br />Put it this way, My old man is due to replace his Ford this Xmas and I know what I am telling him and he agrees<br />Like you said the older groups have more morals these days and the Money.<br />Phil From Broken hill <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/default/mad.gif" />

Fords suck, so do all there followers, there all the same all you have to do is check some of the forums out,talk about one eyed idiots that woffle on and on and on about the same shit.<br />Get a life wankers.<br />Pete

Nevermind<br />You are a typical example of a stuck up one eyes Ford loving fuck wit, that probably can't afFORD to bye one.<br />Get a real job and maybe its time for you to go back to school to educate yourself so you can afFORD one.<br />Bye looser

And you sound like a typical one eyed holden supporter.<br /><br />I don't know why I have to say it again, but here goes....<br /><br />The race teams have NOTHING to do with the Ford or GM companies. I'm not going to say I wouldn't buy a Holden because of the disgraceful antics of Paul Morris a couple of years ago in the Big Kev commodore (If you don't remember he deliberately took out a top running Ford driver, even though he was a running backmarker). And if your not going to buy a particular make of a car because of something that happened in a race, even though your obviously looking at it before hand because it suited your needs/styling better, then in the long run, you'll be the sorry ones.<br /><br />Is one team putting pressure on the officials because of something the officials should have called already a problem? The officials let the car run around for 15 laps, it shiould have been brought in straight away. Alot of teams (including Holden ones) would have questioned the officials (remember, all cars behind skaife were to gain an advantage, not just FPR) as to why they havent pulled Skaife up yet, and it took an official compaint for them to finally do it (if it was Perkins who made the complaint, would you all be going on about it like this???).<br /><br />As for black flagging Murphy, I can't see why they would have even tried. He was the cleanest driver out there, and didnt do a thing wrong all day, althought the team boss'es comments about making sure he picks up all the dirt and gravel on they way into the scrutineers to make sure they make the minimum weight was a little suss.<br /><br />Here it is in point form so its a little easier for you to understand:<br /><br />1. Remember it wasn't only FPR questioning the officials decision to let Skaife stay out on track.<br /><br />2. HRT would have done the same thing, Remember them trying to call the race early at Sandown because there car was failing (complaining about the tyre wall). It was only lucky Team Dynamik had a lunge and beached it that they won that race.<br /><br />3. If anyones to blame, its the officials here for issuing the black flag so late, after HRT team manager ran up to the officials and put pressure on them to let Skaife stay out.<br /><br />4. I drive an AU XR6

now i know why its called Controvery Corner <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/default/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/default/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/default/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/default/grin.gif" />

Nevermind<br />To me I agree that teams should keep to their racing and keep out of the politics.<br />You must agree with me that 95% of viewers on Television don't understand the politics but all they can see is Skaife coming second and two Fords teams doing the whingeing, regardless if it was a reverse situation the outcome would have been the same. It does not look good for the general viewing public.<br />Yes all the Ford people say the same thing happened at Oran Park But this is Bathurst getting pulled in with 1 lap to go at Oran Park would not hurt as much as 8 laps at Bathurst, Yes they said it was a safety issue but really it was a hidden agenda to gain one position.<br />Could you Imagine what Mark Skaife and Todd Kelly feel like, Could you Imagine if it was Lowdnes coming second and two Holden Teams put a whinge in, all the Ford Drivers and people like me would be complaining because I give credit where it deserves and some of us older ones sometimes don't like what we see.<br />And as one of the other guys on this forum said it could make a decision when you decide to buy a new vehicle.<br />Phil, I don't hide behind Aliases

I agree, it was a poor decision to bring him in so late in the race, it should have been delt with straight away. Skaife was a good 40 seconds in front of Lowndes, the pit stop would have brought him out about the same time as the Cat car was about to pass, therefore, probably wouldn't have lost a position. <br /><br />Every Bathurst is full of controversy, look at Greg Murphy's 5 minute penalty last year. I don't have a problem with the safety flag being issued to Skaife, the only mistake the officials made was the delay in applying the flag. Garth Wigston, who is the clerk of course, was the one to issue it, Not FPR, SER or CPR. I agree it looks like sour grapes by the other teams to gain an extra spot, but in a sport where safety is and should be paramount, you cannot run the risk.<br /><br />There have been alot of dodgy decisions by the officials, including the Bright/Ambrose one at Phillip Island, and the Lowndes/Murphy one at Winton, and this could probably be classed as another.<br /><br />It also seems that HRT have been running by a different set of rules to everyone else the past couple of years, especially in regards to the ownership breach with the collapes of the TWR empire and the ownership issues of 6 cars. Technically, HRT, Kmart and Team Brock shouldn't have been allowed to race. And like other said on the day, if it was them with the busted door, they would have been pulled in straight away.<br /><br />It was a shame it took the officials so long to make the decision to pull Skaife in, and a shame it needed a few teams to make some complaints to get the ball rolling. If anything needs looking at, its the professionalism of the officals.

Nevermind<br />You said it!<br /><br />(It was a shame it took the officials so long to make the decision to pull Skaife in, and a shame it needed a few teams to make some complaints to get the ball rolling. If anything needs looking at, its the professionalism of the officials.)<br /><br />And this is the reason why today we signed up with Holden for replacement of all our fleet cars.<br />Now since being in business we have always had Fords mainly because of the better utes and one tonners but we all know about Holdens new range of utes and one tonners and it took Sundays race to swing me in the opposite direction.<br />Time for a change. I just wonder how many people like me that Don't fully understand all the rules of V8 supercars but became sour when we see a Driver that cleary would not have been caught by the cars behind be pulled in for an infringement bought on by a Ford crashing in his door and Complained by other Ford teams.<br />Hummmm times have changed.<br />Once again Phil thanks for the help for the information on Roof restoration rackets. The company has now repaired the problem and will be replacing my driveway.<br />George

I'm still baffled as to what happened between Skaife and the racing officials on sunday has to do with your decision to no longer order what you obviously thought was a superior car to suit your business needs and go with something thats not because you felt they were hard done by?<br /><br />Like I said, Skaife had to be pulled in to fix his problem. It was in a clear breach of the rules. The sad part is, it was way way to late.<br /><br />Anyway, whether you buy a ford or holden doesn't matter to me, and if your purchasing decision is based purely on a sour taste left by one of their sponsored race teams, then thats your decision, and I hope you don't regret it. <br /><br />Just remember though, it wasn't only the ford teams that had positions to gain, and it definently wasn't only ford teams that made complaints to the officials.

Me! Not Me I didn't order new Fleet cars George did.<br />Shit I wonder if there will be any friction next week at indy.<br />Did you see the Video reply of the door what was that strap you could see???<br />It is a pity the race had to finish like this regarding if it was a Holden or Ford, outside a Holden I would have loved to see Junior Johnson win and just imagine if he was due for his first win in donkey years and same for Bathurst and he also was called in with only a few laps to go, it would hurt.<br />Phil

To nethermind <br /><br />Ford and Holden sales are influenced by car racing are they not. Is that not why they sponsor racing teams? To promote there product?<br /><br />Ford and Holden have to take the good with the bad in the end they are selling cars to the public so public opinion should be valued. <br /> These sponsored teams are reflection of the makers Attitude like it or not people are buy a brand and an image in the end. And if that image stinks in peoples opinion they will not part with there money will they ?

Who saw the first race at the Gold Coast today?<br /><br />I thought the Ingall/Murphy thing was a 50/50 incident (much like the Skaife door incident at Bathurst), and wouldnt have been suprised if he got called in straight away to serve his penalty (once again, same feelings as the Skaife incident).<br /><br />Whether Ingall looses his win or not is yet to be seen, but isnt this the same situation as last fortnight, where a team made an official complaint to blaintly gain an extra position (your words, not mine)?<br /><br />I hope its not to late to cancel that Holden Fleet deal and go with the Magna's, because i'm sure you've got that horrible taste in your mouth again regarding manufacturers.<br /> <br /> <small>[ 26. October 2003, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: Nevermind ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nevermind:<br /><strong> Who saw the first race at the Gold Coast today?<br /><br />I thought the Ingall/Murphy thing was a 50/50 incident (much like the Skaife door incident at Bathurst), and wouldnt have been suprised if he got called in straight away to serve his penalty (once again, same feelings as the Skaife incident).<br /><br />Whether Ingall looses his win or not is yet to be seen, but isnt this the same situation as last fortnight, where a team made an official complaint to blaintly gain an extra position (your words, not mine)?<br /><br />I hope its not to late to cancel that Holden Fleet deal and go with the Magna's, because i'm sure you've got that horrible taste in your mouth again regarding manufacturers. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't worry you wont bait George he has already ordered his Holdens, You contradict yourself, did Ingall loose his No 1 position from yesterday?? if not that is another reason why you should not buy a Ford "Discrimination" its good enough to give Skafie a visit to pit lane so it should be for ingall.<br />You know my personal opinion is if someone starts shit with you, you must retaliate its only fair and like I said now what happened at Bathurst it will start a rain of whingeing.<br />Tell me Nevermind why don't you use your real name or are a coward like others Do you think if someone wanted to find you they couldn't.<br />It bothers me why we have a few cowards on this forum and on others you have 100% of them, <br />I have nothing to hide and if some takes it further I use the Famous path: Complain/Private/Investigator/won't mention who's next/then the courts, thats the difference between the young and old, Defamation is a criminal offence, ask Zac,Hi Zac.<br />Phil <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/default/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/default/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/default/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/default/confused.gif" />

All i'm stating is the similarities between the two events. That is official complaints to gain a spot, when no real damage had been done. While Skaifes door at Bathurst was a safety issue, it was still a 50/50 call, the same as Ingalls at surfers.<br /><br />I don't hold any hatered for Kmart and Holden because they made a complaint, infact I got alot of respect from them because of Greg Murphy's acceptance of the incident after the hearing.<br /><br />All i'm saying is it happens both sides of the camp, and it happens in all sports (how many times do you see a bowler in cricket yell "howz'at", trying to convince the umpire its a LBW or whatever, even though he may well know its not).<br /><br />btw, whats the big issue with wanting to know my name? I use this nick of just about every forum I participate in, and i've never had anyone question me about it.<br /><br />I didn't come here to cause trouble or bait people, I just tried to explain my side of the story, and how I feel about the incidents.<br /><br />cheers . . . <br /> damien

Damien<br />You know what I think, this is my opinion, No team should be allowed to go up screaming to the officials this should be stopped, its not in the interest of motor sport.Leave it to the so called experts and if they stuff up then it time to replace them.<br />Phil<br /><br /><br />Don't worry about "ZAC" he sent me once a email telling me and my family where to go, See he is a seller of Pay TV piracy which I personally hate. Now he has a problem never knowing when a knock on his door will take him away.<br />Heeeeeee thumbs down to all the greedy sellers!!!

I agree, the decision shouldn't be infulenced at all by any team, either way ("please sir, don't penalise us, it'll be right", and "Penalise them!!!").<br /><br />All I was trying to say was it happens both ways (as seen this weekend).<br /><br />If you want to see a hammering of a forum troll, check out this site:<br /><br /> <small>[ 29. October 2003, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Nevermind ]</small>

Nevermind<br />HEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! good one, could you ever imagine if V8 Central ever went that way?? <br />Some Aussies in there.<br />Phil