Problem is that Irdeto STBs are much cheaper than the old TARBS STB. Irdeto boxes retail for less than $200 on Hot Chip and Kristal and wholsale at less than $130. Select is selling its Irdeto box and card for $175(?). You can get a full install, dish, card, STB and installation for under $400 these days. And what's with this activation fee? Pay $50 to TARMS to take down your name and address and send you a bill?<br /><br />So, if you spend $300 on a TARBS box, less the $109 "special discount" (well, really ony $59) - , you will barely break even.