I was entice to post this topic up after watching a very powerful movie called "The boy in the striped pajamas" this movie made what Alisa would say my "juices flowing" it was very stimulating and it arouses deep thought provoking questions. which in turn bought up my question of the good/evil concept. If you haven't heard or seen the movie I highly recommend it, it is actually based on a book so I'm pretty sure if the movie was so interesting I can imagine reading it.

The movie is about a boy whose father is a Nazi soldier. He gets promoted to a general status and moves his family away to the country side where he have to oversee Jewish concentration camps. The movie is really based on the boy Bruno and the story is told from how a innocent child who has no knowledge of what the real war is about or the idea of what a Nazi/Jewish status is. Bruno only knows that his father is a soldier and he is very proud of him. when they move away the camp is behind the house where they are staying which the Mother wasn't aware of. Bruno being a little kid wanders around exploring and come across the barb wires where the camp is. He then see's a young boy sitting behind the gate. As the story develops Bruno and the Jewish boy befriends each other and of course there's more to the story, but I said enough so I don't won't to spoil the rest in case there are people who are interested in watching it

It's a great story where you see the mother struggling to accept what her husband does for a living, where you see the daughter going through her own changes and of course two kids coming from different worlds collide. This brings me back to the point of good/evil concept. You can say that Bruno represented the "bad side" (not him individually) and the Jewish child was the "good" side .

so, which really is it? were the Nazi's really evil? to them the Jews were the evil ones just like the Nazi's are to them. It's true what Alisa says that "whichever side you are on is the "right" side to you, the "good guys". So does that mean the good guys are the bad guys and vice versa?

Many people would have to argue with that especially if they come from a background that has been oppressed take slavery for example. I can see their point of view as well, every time I see a movie dealing with the civil war or the atrocities of slavery I get so mad! of course the "white man" would be the evil ones to them and that goes for what the Native Americans had to go through as well. In many cultures they still view it this way even though it's centuries later. I wonder why it's still perceive like this?

Another issue on the who's good who's evil board is what do you think about rapist? murders? animal abusers? when you read news stories about serial killers or child molesters do you think that they are good people doing evil/bad things? or evil/bad people doing just that bad/evil things?

So if there is really no such thing as good/evil then what do you call killing your own two year old son and chopping him up to stuff him in a bag and pour 400 pounds of concrete on top behind a mobile home? or cutting up your pregnant dead girlfriend after you ate her brains? yes these are real news stories that I read each day on the internet. It seems to me that we are really living in a modern armaggedon. It's so appalling that you now have to watch out for your own husband/Mother/Son etc... to harm you let alone a stranger!!!

where did the concept of evil occur? why do people do these things?

do you think we need both good and bad to balance each other out? (like the dark/light concept)

These views are just my opinions so I hope any of my ramblings didn't offend anyone. I'm just trying to get a take on both sides, so please let me know where your stance is on this subject.

Namaste,
orb

Another great post, ! You are really digging deep. I'd love to hear what others think, no matter the perspective.

I have to thank you again Alisa because you at first gave me the idea about the not believing the good/evil concept from the Alien post. That movie just put it all into motion for me. You have some awesome viewpoints and I just love them I also heart the little queen smiley u use for me all the time, great choice

Some say the only good is knowledge whilst the only evil is ignorance - perhaps that might be a worthy place to start discussing with each other...

Talk about a loaded question lol.

I've continuesly kept my veiw point that there is no Good and no Evil.
There is Light and Dark for sure, but the Dark is not more evil than the light is good. One cannot exist without the other.

But the way i look at it (in keeping with your referance to the Holocast) From their veiw point of the Nazi's what they were doing was a just cause, to them it was the right and Good thing, while to everyone else it was without a doubt a discustingly Evil act.
On whats Good or Evil it all depends on who's perseptive your looking from, so unless everyone is apart of the same unified perspective and there are no sides that's the only way there could be a good side and an evil side. But since that is completely impossible in every concievable way it is therefore impossible for Good and Evil to exist.

Believe me i've been ridiculed for seeing the world this way. I've been asked by a dozen people, "Well what if some old guys rapes and kills a little girl? You don't think that is Evil?" and it pains me to say that from that mans perspective what he does isn't Evil, he doesn't consider himself an Evil person. Thankfully the Law and Justice system does not convict people of being Evil or Good, they are innocent or guilty which is hugely differnt.

Wow, what a great post, Lyprith! I enjoyed it and it gave me a new perspectives.

My favourite bits:


Excellent!

I also liked what Al added:



I'm learning so much from you guys!

Thanks again Queenie, for such a great topic and examples!

I totally agree with you too Al well said!

Lyprith, so even though the guy that rapes little kids doesn't perceive himself as evil doesn't mean that he's not evil. what if he did perceive this image of himself and he knows what he's doing is wrong does that make him evil? if not what does that indeed make him? like Al said "the only evil is ignorance" so he wouldn't be ignorant on his actions. just because a dog doesn't perceive himself to be a dog doesn't mean that he isn't a dog . I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder!

Like i said, my view of things has usually gotten me into trouble when i expressed them.
There is a difference to seeing an action as being Wrong and seeing it as Evil. Ultimately a Pedophile could observe his actions as wrong, but he would try to list off his good qualities before he'd label himself Evil, "What i've done is very wrong, but i give to charities, i do some good things, so i can't be an Evil person." Even if a Psdophile were to think of themself as Evil, there would be many other pedophiles who would not see them as Evil. It's Human nature to try and redeem oneself from their actions, to lessen blame.

For an example, say a world of people had a peice of land in their world, they all say "Anyone who stands on the land is an Evil person" There is no one to say otherwise, so it must be truth, until one single person stands on the peice of land and says, "I am standing on this land, and i am not Evil." Suddenly there is another side, another opinion to contest the first.
I'm not saying that there is not Right and Wrong according to my own morals. But i'm always aware that for every story there are multiple sides.

Physically being a Dog is a completely different concept. You can't Physically BE Evil, it's all in the mind. You can't look at a Person and think "Well he's Evil because he/she looks that way."

No you Can't physically be evil, but It's not about the physical part it's about the "perceive" notion of it that's why the dog concept is not so off at all. I never said a dog physically isn't a dog it's what it perceived to be, hence it being in the "mind."

To me there are many levels of being wrong. stealing a candy bar is wrong, lying is wrong, fighting is wrong etc... but the difference is doing something on the top level of wrong like molestation and knowing that it's wrong to do, but you still do it. This is more on the evil/wrong side.

I bring this up because a while back I saw a show on Oprah about child pedophiles. She only interviewed I think five of them off set and she said this was the most honest and informative interview that she ever done or heard. In their minds they "perceived" themselves as being "evil" yes they even said that. They said that they can never be changed or reinvented. They were not in denial and they were not ignorant to their actions. According to them many "pedophiles" see themselves in that way, but lie to the public in order to be redeemed and set free. Now I'm not saying all of them have that mind frame I believe that they are some who are in denial.

Another thought if "we make our own reality" does that mean we also make good/evil? every thought is heard throughout the universe and so therefore is set into action. The energy is release and now it is created. This is another take on the good/evil concept just another view to look at it.
Humans invented the word "evil" so then it must be in existence the same goes for the word "good."

This is a top thread and a huge topic really. I think it gets right to the meat of life - the question of how to best view good and evil. Almost all of the questions you ask OQ are questions I have also asked. I'll give my point of view and understanding about good/evil.

I understand how you see many levels. I do, too. But let me start by saying that most of the bad that people "do" is due to learning, mistakes, and is unintentional. Therefore, people whose actions seem wrong or harmful, but are mistakes, are not evil or bad people, I'm sure you would agree. They were not born bad babies amongst the good ones. They do things like scratch another person's car by mistake and duck out without leaving a note. That sort of thing (until it happens to them or they realize it is easier to take responsibility than to live with the guilt, etc).

Another level might include people who habitually do bad things like steeling (for drug habits, for example), or who abuse their spouse or children because they are frustrated and conditioned perhaps by their own experienced abuse. They repeat bad behaviours because they are stuck in a loop. They also were not born bad babies, but they are very entrenched in harmful behaviour.

The third level is what I consider the "time bomb". These are babies that are not born bad, but they are born with a loaded potential to be bad or behave badly. It is beyond their control. They are intentionally created this way - from my understanding (from my spirit guides). An example of this type of person would be a psychopath with the potential to kill serially, or a paedophile. Once their internal bomb goes off, neither of these type generally reform no matter how much rehabilitation they receive. It stymies society, and it baffled me at one time as well. I spent lots of time buying and reading books on psychopaths because I was so fascinated and determined to understand who they are and why they behave this way.

So, are there bad people? No. But there are people that have been chosen as conduits of adversity (of varying severity). Their souls have agreed to be this type of conduit (time bomb). And it doesn't make for an easy life for them (and of course it is horrible for their victims, though their souls also choose this path of victimhood, too). Anyway, if you watch interviews with psychopaths, you can tell that they don't logically choose these acts (they are compelled!). Many will admit that no matter what, they know they will commit the offence again. (It reminds me of an interview I saw with a paedophile who had himself chemically castrated, and still, he knew he would continue the behaviour if let out of confinement). They know it is considered abhorrent in society. Yet they cannot stop. Because it is not their choice. It is God's will. We all do God's will whether we consciously agree with it or not. That's what makes life smooth or bumpy, how we flow with it or fight it. And though I am sure it would upset some to think God is capable of willing us to kill each other, that's what I've come to understand God does ("The killer in me is the killer in you"). God is the giver of life and the taker of life. God is all.

Why does God want there to be adversity? Because adversity is growth, it is friction by which muscle is gained. Without adversity there is nothing. It is the yin of the yang. God is all things. The larger God's diameter, the greater the sphere God encompasses. Balance is the key in this duality. For the greatest act that is altruistic and seems "good" (saintly), there must be an equally dark act that seems "evil" (a killer).

As humanity begins/continues ascending (or whatever the process is of moving out of duality - maybe it is into triplicity, not sure), we will no longer experience such polarities. There will not be such horrific acts, but there will also not be such seemingly saintly acts. Less highs and lows, more even keel. Adversity will always exist (I was specifically told this by my guide), but it does not need to be in focus as it has been. It can be smaller seeming and more blended into the whole of love. The more balanced a person is, the less frequently and intensely they will experience overt adversity.

From my perspective, the only control we really have is in fighting or flowing with divine will. I find it best to flow... To allow. To cease seeking control. To let go and let God. To trust that God has got it all in hand. It thus stands to reason to me that when there are less people seeking to "do good" then there will be less need of people seeking to "do bad". Let the dust settle and just "be".

The way I understand it is through the concept of "focus". I have had numerous lessons with spirit in which I have come away with the mantra "Focus on 100% positive".

As I said before, adversity exists and always will exist, however(!) it can be out-of-sight-out-of-mind depending upon our focus. Let me relate this story/example:

You are walking along the beach barefoot having a lovely time. The sun is shining warmly and your feet are cool against the wet sand. Your friend is walking along with you but she is stepping gingerly. She is afraid of stepping on a sharp shell or piece of glass because once when she was young, this is what happened to her. She cut her foot deeply. She is not nearly as happy as you are, yet you both walk along the same stretch of beautiful beach. In fact, if her fear of the potential of getting hurt is too great, walking on the beach might actually be a torturous experience for her.

And yet, the beach is the same physical place for you as for her. So why are the experiences so disparate?

The sharp shells on the beach are there whether we encounter them or not. That is adversity. It is potential that exists at every moment and will always be there. But if we can remove our focus from that potential, then a vast majority of the time we are happily enjoying the beautiful aspects of the beach. It definitely is a challenge to remove focus from the sharp shells when you have been cut by them before, but this is the way to mastery and it is well worth the effort - to learn to see the good amidst the possible bad. Because despite desires, thoughts, etc., "bad" will continue to exist and will pop up when the situation calls for it (or when divine will dictates, or however you wish to view it as fate, purpose, karma, soul plan, etc.). But living in anticipation of those moments makes for a life of misery.

I meant also to add that whatever you focus upon draws that experience to you. Hence if you feel fear and focus on the potential of stepping on a shell (which is a personal example for me ) then you are likely to do just that (as I did when I feared I would). By the same token, if you feel safe and secure, you are far more likely to experience this safety in an intensified way. It is not a wish, it is an intention that draws the experience to you. There is a difference. And intention is related to focus.

It may also be explained that rather than drawing the scenario to you, it is the dimension you step into in which that scenario occurs. If you consider the concept of many possible choices that exist every moment of your life, and if these choices are dimensional worlds through which you will travel dependent upon which choice you make, then what occurs is that you step into the dimensional world (one of many possibilities) in which you are injured by a shell (if you focus on the fear of shells). Because focus is a steering mechanism toward which dimensional world you are choosing (whether you choose consciously through intent, or subconsciously through fear).

Any questions, other points of view, disagreements?

But is there evil? Is everything merely varying degrees of good? Does there have to be an evil if good exists?

Until an objective definition of evil/good is reached or at least approached, then you're on the roundabout so to speak.
That would be the first so-called problem faced. I would suggest just beginning with some concept, and then thinking how it might fit into reality.

Now aside from that, which is what is really being sought - unless that is one would prefer to just gather opinions and stay on the roundabout - the other part that has been included in the discussion relates to perception.

The way in which an individual perceives either the shells or beach in the scenario above, or another individual or a particular act leads to how things will play out, simply speaking.

I concur Al I'm more so interested in the perceive notion of the subject not so much if it exist or not because everyone is different. What I perceive to exist may not be the same for you and your perception may be different from others, so I guess it all depends on each person's experiences. To me it's kinda like reading a book my creation of the world, characters and scenes that are talked about in the book would be completely different from somebody else's perception even the writer's and at the same time might actually be quite similar. But since it was a thought and therefore invented into reality therefore it lives which in my opinion just "is". The point is that we are both reading the same book what I get out of it is what I learned/experience from living or in this case reading it.

An interesting thread indeed. I agree with much of what has been said regarding word choice and doing wrong rather than being evil. When it comes down to defining evil, for me the best definition of evil action or intent would be doing the wrong thing completely willfully with full intent to do harm and complete understanding of the intent to harm and all it's implications. This means without rationalising the action too, and without any form of cognitive or emotional impairment. Every once in a while real evil may well crop up. I don't think it's terribly common though.

Thank you for your additional comments. I think you made an excellent contribution to the topic, Dragonwyst. I like it very much and it was easy to take on board.

As I read the conditions you defined for evil, I thought, Yes, true. And then I thought, but that would make evil quite rare...which was in essence your closing sentence.

Good and Evil are only human perceptions which do not exist elsewhere ! Man creates and perceives what is good and what is evil ! One may perceive something to be evil someone else may perceive it to be good ! It is not an entity it is a perception !

Put simply and succinctly!