Going for a simple drive today we all were nearly killed by an out of control 4WDrive. The 4WD lost control after being forced off the road by what they think was another 4WD and the 4WD heading in my direction with its front and rear passenger side wheels in the gravel tried to get back on the road but the front passenger wheel dug into the TAR and spun the vehicle in front of us crashing into trees and rolling over.<br />I in all my bionic life never expected to see what I saw, He tried to drive back on the tar without turning the wheel sharply but still the stupid 4WD front tyre dug into the Tar road bringing the rear out thus the driver lost control.<br />Now the Police took statements from us and another 2 drivers but I have a feeling that this so called 4WD that ran the other 4WD came back to the accident scene saying that they were following the out of control 4WD.<br />This is not the end of this and I do expect the Police to contact me.<br /> AFTER WHAT I SAW TODAY YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE AN IDIOT TO OWN A 4WD, ONCE YOU LOSE IT YOU WILL NOT RECOVER IT IF YOU LOSE CONTROL!!!!!!!!! I cannot believe what my eyes saw. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/default/mad.gif" />

I am lost here Phil , why would you have to be an idiot to own a 4WD ?? Wouldnt it have more to do with the idiot driving it ?

No the vehicle should not have lost control so easy. He wasn't going fast he just had the drivers side front and rear on the smove gravel and when he put all the 4 wheels on the tar again his front big fat tall tyre dug into the tar road which cause his rear to step out putting his car in a head on situation with us. This would not happen to a normal vehicle.<br />One these care should not be allowed to be raided and also these large tyres are the cause of them to dig into the road. I saw with my own eyes the car tripped over its own shoes.

The guys front wheels were slightly towards the middle of the road but the front tyre should not have done what I saw.

These 4WD should be for the bush with such a high profile tyre, you wonder why with a lousy angle turned on gravel but when it hit the tar it pulled the 4WD hard to the middle of the road and he lost it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Boring:<br /><strong> I am lost here Phil , why would you have to be an idiot to own a 4WD ?? Wouldnt it have more to do with the idiot driving it ? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Personally I think every 4WD or if Modified has to be given the sideways test by professional drivers and you would see most of them or the ones modified would not be able to be recovered if you lose control and you wonder why that 4WD have the highest in rollovers recorded by any vehicle accross Australia. Lose control of one and see if you're good enough to recover it. when its standard and heaven forbit if it modified, raised, with bigger tyres. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/default/mad.gif" />

I would consider my Toyota Landcruiser far safer then the majority of crap on the road. I doubt I would ever get in to a situation like that with constant 4WD.<br /><br />I see far stupider incidents every day going to work ( 2 hours driving a day ) , mainly by young idiots in Commodores swerving all over the roads , tailgating , cutting people off and showing they have almost zero driving ability.<br /><br />Its a bit like supporting John Howards view that guns kill people , its actually the person using the gun that kills people. Motor vehicles are no different.<br /><br />Young drivers in hotted up cars would be responsible for probably 50 times more accidents than someone in a 4WD , yet no one seems to want to ban young drivers from cars such as Commodores and Falcons.

Boring<br />You don't get my point!!. This has to do with a guy losing control of his car when it shouldn't have in the fist place. Like i said the front tyre under load dug in, this would not happen on any typical normal average road car with average profile tyres. These high profile tyres are dangerous. Have you ever seen a top fuel dragster out of control and going sideways?? If not I have a few time on ESPN they all dig in and flip over. What I am saying is very simple if the guys had standard profile tyres like a typical vehicle the tyre would scrub sideways but not dig in, who know it might even have pulled the Steering wheel out of his hands which caused him to get out of control.

These vehicles must NOT be allowed to be raised or to have higher profile tyres fitted. When I was young I was booked for lowering a vehicle and it made the car run and handle better now we have the opposite and they are getting away with it. Again this car should have not lost control so easy at such a average speed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/default/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/default/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/default/confused.gif" />

If you lose control in the gravel and suddenly veer back on to bitumen , almost any vehicle will " grab " when it hits the bitumen again. The same would happen with any " normal profile " tyres. Maybe not as much if you have spent a fortune on ultra low profile tyres that are bearly visable on the rim.<br /><br />But again , if a vehicle is out of control in the gravel on the side of the road at 100kmh , there are going to be obvious problems no matter what it is. Ever seen a truck do it ?

I think what Phil is trying to say is the Vehicle only became out of control after it hit the bitumen not when It was half on the bitumen and half on the gravel. But again he is saying the tyre dug in that means the walls of the tyre folded in on the loaded side that gave that tyre extra grip.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Boring:<br /><strong> If you lose control in the gravel and suddenly veer back on to bitumen , almost any vehicle will " grab " when it hits the bitumen again. The same would happen with any " normal profile " tyres. Maybe not as much if you have spent a fortune on ultra low profile tyres that are bearly visable on the rim.<br /><br />But again , if a vehicle is out of control in the gravel on the side of the road at 100kmh , there are going to be obvious problems no matter what it is. Ever seen a truck do it ? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ever seen a truck do it ? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And its because they have high profile tyres, lose control of a truck you're finished. High profile tyres on any vehicle are dangerous. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/default/smile.gif" />

Shit , we better ban em all then <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/default/smile.gif" /> 4WD's , Trucks , Front End Loaders , Aircraft , Courier Vans , Utes with light truck wheels , Buses , Mini Buses , it goes on and on.<br /><br />When it comes to safety , I personally would prefer to see a ban on anyone under 25 driving a Holden Commodore. It would halve the road toll <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/default/smile.gif" /> <br /><br />But I could rave on all day about this , so I will say me and Phil agree on one thing , we disagree <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/default/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ew_289:<br /><strong> I think what Phil is trying to say is the Vehicle only became out of control after it hit the bitumen not when It was half on the bitumen and half on the gravel. But again he is saying the tyre dug in that means the walls of the tyre folded in on the loaded side that gave that tyre extra grip. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">100% correct.<br />This is what i'm trying to say. The 4WD was going in a straight line not out of control doing around 70 to 80 K, it was simple!!! the two drivers side wheels were on the tar, the two passenger side wheel where in the gravel and he decided to go back on the tar to get back into the lane, we see this all the time a car making a right hand turn so someone goes on the left hand side of the car putting two wheels on the gravel and you come back on the road simple but in this case when he came back on the road the car swerved hard to the middle of the road causing it to lose control. Again Super high tyres, a vehicle with a high centre of gravity and bingo you have a roll over.<br />I could not see any car losing control this easy, again not this easy!!. All cars behave different in different conditions, and I can still see in my dreams how that front passenger tyre behaved which no doubt caused him to lose it so easy. I estimated around 70.80 ks he might have even be going slowler as this section of the road is tight and my opinion 60 k is to fast.