AUS-CITY Message Forums

          AUS-CITY Group Forums

                   Come explore with us!


                       Please also visit: IDB.COM.AU - IDB.INFO - IDB.ASIA - IDB.AU
Race Control News and Results Feed
YouTube David 'The Captain' - YouTube Wesley 'Iceman' - YouTube Alisa 'Black Mamba'
Twitch.tv David 'The Captain' - Twitch.tv Wesley 'Iceman' - Twitch.tv Alisa 'Black Mamba'
Odysee - 'F1 - The Captain' - Oydsee - 'FiA - Iceman' - Odysee - 'KingScaron'
Join our discord server - 'Formula Racing Club'
Join our discord server - 'F1 Formula Racing Club'
Join our telegram server - 'Track Limits'

Search AUS-CITY
Search Worldwide
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 389 guests, and 33 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
KSC PAD 39A
PAD 39A
KSC PAD 39B
PAD 39B
TLE DATA


IDB.COM.AU

For all your TLE downloads.

June
S M T W T F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
AUS-CITY Recent Posts
NHC Atlantic Outlook
by Webmaster - Thu 20 Jun 2024 09:07:PM
CPHC Central North Pacific Outlook
by Webmaster - Thu 20 Jun 2024 05:52:PM
NHC Eastern North Pacific Outlook
by Webmaster - Thu 20 Jun 2024 05:46:PM
How Cohousing Neighborhoods Can Combat the Rise of Loneliness
by Webmaster - Thu 20 Jun 2024 03:00:PM
Thursday - 16:00 BST: Not available, 22°C (71°F)
by Webmaster - Thu 20 Jun 2024 03:00:PM
There are no tropical cyclones at this time.
by Webmaster - Thu 20 Jun 2024 12:21:PM
AUS-CITY Latest Photos
Art By MA
Art By MA
by Alisa, July 27
"5greenheart" by MA
"5greenheart" by MA
by Alisa, July 27
"3moons" by MA
"3moons" by MA
by Alisa, July 27
Art By MA
Art By MA
by Alisa, July 27
Art By MA
Art By MA
by Alisa, July 27
Popular Topics(Views)
AUS-CITY Earthquake Map
World Earthquake Map
AUS-CITY Advertisements
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#43523 Wed 21 Jan 2009 11:51:PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
I purchased my kefir water crystals in December. And I've been successfully making delicious kefir water drinks since then. I have experimented some and plan to share my results here for anyone interested.

Kefir water is wonderful for several reasons:

1. It is fun to brew your own drink. woot
2. It contains probiotics which are amazingly good for the digestive system which in-turn improves overall health.
3. Kefir water is a "living" food.

Many foods start off as living foods, but through processing and heating (for canning) the beneficial living organisms are killed. When the beneficial organisms are intact, they help breakdown the food so it is more easily digested by the body and so that the energy, vitamins, etc., are readily assimilated.

Anyway, much to discuss on this topic! heartbeat

Meanwhile, here are some photos of my little crystals brewing. The white/clear bits are the kefir water crystals. The brown things are sultanas (that's what the recipe calls for). The yellow things are lemon slices. And the remaining ingredients are water and sugar. The crystals consume the sugar and create a fizzy, tangy drink similar to a light ginger beer.

I greatly welcome any questions, comments, or experience that you can share! [Linked Image]


Attached Images
kw6579.jpg kwjug6572.jpg kwgrains6565.jpg
AUS-CITY Advertisements

UBB Central
Interactive forums from Space, Science and Technology To General Interest, Personal and Spirituality.
AtomicSecured Linux
CMS The Best Conveyancing solicitors conveyancing quotes throughout the UK
For any webhosting enquiries please email webmaster@aus-city.com
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
Though I have experimented with the recipe a bit (with a few awful results), I am now basically sticking to the original recipe given to me by the crystal provider and one that produces a tasty lemonade like probiotic drink with a bit of carbonated fizz...and that recipe is:

Kefir Water Crystals (I only have 2 tbsp or less)
1-2 tbsp organic sultanas
4-5 cups of water
4-5 tbsp of white sugar
1-2 slices of lemon with rind on
1 piece of egg shell

Hints:

Sugar rule of thumb is 1 tablespoon of sugar per cup of water. I used raw (brown in colour) sugar at first and later decided to try white sugar. When I went back to raw, a bitter taste that reminded me of licorice or molasses was very apparent and I didn't like it. So I am sticking with white sugar because taste is important if it is not too compromising, and in this case it is not because the crystals break down the sugar (sucrose) into fructose and dextrose and consumes much of the sugar and sweetness anyway. For the scant amount of nutrition I am missing in the raw sugar vs. the bitterness I can taste in it, I'm not bothered.

The lemon zest (bright yellow outer peel) contains the lemon oil. I have taken the zest off a few times because the lemon was not organic (so I could not be sure if it had anti-fungal or pesticides), and the resulting drink was not lemony. I have since left the zest on with even non-organic lemons and my crystals and I are fine.

I have read in most places that the crystals need to be rinsed after each batch, and though I did this faithfully for weeks, I've decided not to do this any more saving me an extra step. I have read about storing large amounts of crystals in simple sugar water in the fridge and then needing to rinse them once a week or so. I can understand that. But with a tiny amount of crystals, they get quite a good rinsing just by adding them to the 5 cups of water. Taking this a step further, a friend of mine whom I shared some of my crystals with came up with the great idea to treat the kefir water like kombucha, vinegar, etc., and keep a cup of the kefir water back to remain in the jug for the next brew. I imagine like most ferments, the new water just needs inoculation. The crystals provide this, but even greater/quicker inoculation occurs when 1/5 of the water is already turned. That's the thought anyway. dunno And it makes sense to me and seems to be working. yes

The recommended water is high-mineral content water, such as well or spring water. I have even read from many sources that to use filtered water your crystals will not thrive and could die. Apparently to use chlorinated water is worse. Now, I have not used chlorinated water because I have a water filter at my sink and I don't drink chlorinated water either. So I can't say what will happen using chlorinated tap water. Initially I purchased and used spring water. I then tried using filtered water. I personally have not seen any difference. I also haven't done stringent long-term tests. I think one of the points about water is the PH level of the water for optimal fermentation. I have to say that this is beyond my scope and I don't test my water. Some instructions say to add a tiny pinch of bicarb soda for alkaline balance. dunno I can't say one way or the other. I have tried putting in a pinch of bicarb. Again, I haven't made a serious attempt to compare this or test the PH. At the moment, filtered water is working for me.

The eggshell is also supposed to help with this aspect of the water since the kefir seems to break down the eggshell adding alkalinity to the water, I assume. And as a bonus, giving some calcium and magnesium to the drinker. Is it integral though? I don't know. I boiled a bunch of eggshells so I put in a piece and leave it in the jug for each batch until it is dissolved. It doesn't hurt and maybe it really helps. And I don't mind knowing I'm getting the extra minerals.

I like to use organic sultanas since I can easily get them at the grocery store because it is nice to know they have not been sprayed with stuff, don't have sulfites, and also because they don't have vegetable oil on them which does put a small oily film in the brewing vessel otherwise. I like the taste sultanas give. I read a bit of a scientific paper that I found in my searches that said dried figs proved to be optimal for fermentation. I tried figs a few times and I think it may have fermented faster or differently. But in the end I still like the taste of sultanas and taste does factor into this because I drink this every day and I want to enjoy it. The taste of figs might well appeal to others though, so definitely try it.

Instructions (how I do it anyway):

If you have a batch already made, use a tea strainer to scoop out the sultanas (that will float) and the lemon slice(s). I reuse the lemon many times as it continues to generate flavour. (During lemon season refresh each time if you like)! After about 5 days I squeeze the lemon into the finished product and throw the rind away. I reuse the sultanas 2-3 times. After that, their sugary life has been sucked out of them so I discard them (taste and see)! eyebrow

Next, pour the liquid through a tea strainer (placed inside a funnel) into a bottle with hinged lid (see below). The strainer is to catch any errant kefir crystals or any lemon seeds. I leave about a cup of the kefir in the jug and usually the crystals stay in there with that final cup.

Cap your newly filled bottle and leave it out for a few hours to ferment it further or to get more carbonation. Further fermentation creates a bit of alcohol and if you leave it too long, you might get something very alcoholic tasting so be careful.

Add 4 tbsp sugar to 4 cups of water. Stir to dissolve, or don't. dunno Add this back into the jug which still contains one cup of kefir water and your kefir crystals. Add the used/new sultanas, lemon and eggshell. The main point is to be gentle with the kefir crystals so as not to break them apart. I say this because as they get larger, it is not as easy to lose them and also at some point they apparently break apart on their own and liberate new baby crystals.

Put lid on jug and leave the jug out on the counter or in a cupboard or whatever suits for 18-48 hours. You'll have to taste test the water to learn how fermented you like it and how long that takes. Use a large capacity jug leaving plenty of extra room in the vessel because some pressure will build during the fermentation process and a full jug could explode (makes sense).


An experiment that wasn't so great...

I juiced a watermelon and used it for most of the water. yuck I strained it and after several days in the fridge in a capped bottle, it was thick and really yucky. It took a couple of batches for the crystals to recover and produce a nice batch of the regular recipe.

I really love kefir water. I look forward to seeing and tasting my new batch each day. And each batch is a bit different. It is like seeing a new bloom on a rose bush. I think of it as alchemy, gardening and art combine. Something like that. [Linked Image]

Please post if you have more to add, or your own recipe, or if you found different results, etc. coolpeace

Attached Images
water_bottle.jpg
Alisa #43601 Sat 31 Jan 2009 07:36:PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
I'm now adding slices of ginger root. I think this may alkalinise the kefir water - and I know mine has been a bit acidic. Ginger is such an excellent herb anyway, soothes the stomach, and tastes nice. So if it also alkalinises as well... thumbup

Alisa #43622 Mon 02 Feb 2009 12:37:AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 208
Mission Specialist Level 1
*****
Offline
Mission Specialist Level 1
*****
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 208
Knock Knock..!!
Excuse me.
can I place an order for a 44 gallon drum or a pellet of bottles of your Kefir drink pleeese..?
Well with the temperatures they way they have been lately
why not ah?

alcohol


I know you know I know
Flux #43624 Mon 02 Feb 2009 04:05:PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
I could just give you a handful of crystals (if only I had that much at this point) and you could make it by the gallon each day! Inexpensive, delicious, and ultimately nutritious. They are wondrous little beings! [Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]


But for now, here, I can easily spare a tall glass for a good friend! clink


Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
With the sudden cooled down weather rain (we went from days of 36 C now to days of 20 C), I've noticed a difference in my brewing. It's taking much longer. It used to be that every 12 hours my brew was ready (using approx 6 cups of water).

Yesterday I left the brew of 6 cups water (1 tbsp crystal) for 36 hours and it still wasn't quite sparkly tasting. I have strained the liquid from the crystals and capped it in a glass bottle for 6 hours and it is not fizzy. hmm

I'm going to have to shoot for 48 hours of brewing 6 cups of water with the crystals to see what I get. thinking

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
I'm doing well now with 36 + hours of fermenting with the crystals. I also am being sure to leave in the fermenting jug, a cup of kefir water and all the sediment from the prior batch as a starter.

Thanks for that tip from H.F.! [Linked Image]

I think in part, the sudden temperature drop shocked the crystals on the first batch much like a stint in the fridge would do.

So basically, after approx. 36 hours, I drain off five cups of kefir water into my storage bottles (to leave for further carbonating on the countertop). That leaves me with the one cup of kefir water still in the jug with the crystals.

To this I add 5 cups of sugar water (1 tbsp/cup), a lemon wedge and some sultanas, my perpetual piece of peeled ginger root and a bit of eggshell. And thus starts a new batch. magic

I also find it helpful to leave a 1/4 cup of the kefir water and any sediment in the storage bottles as a further kick-start for the countertop carbonation process.

[Linked Image]

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 537
Payload Specialist Level 1
*****
Offline
Payload Specialist Level 1
*****
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 537
Hmm, very interesting. Never heard of these crystals. I wonder if other citrus fruits can be substituted for lemons, or added in conjunction?

I think your're onto something about the egg shells though. A couple of summers ago, I was doing some gardening in the backyard & upon removing a potted flower from it's nursery container, I found this little cinnamon bun shaped "thing" hanging from the roots. I picked it up and turned it around to inspect it, and to my surprise it was a huge snail!!!

I had never before seen a real live "land" snail.Only the ones you will usually find in fishing or swimming ponds(the water snails can ONLY thrive in the water).

Never having seen a snail move on land,I watched this thing for hours! Shortly thereafter adopting it as my new friend - Gary!(huge spongebob fan!)

Truely fascinated w/this creature I ventured to the library to find out how to properly care for Gary & what kind of enviornment to simulate for him. In this search I found that egg shells are very benificial for strengthening their shells. Usually the books suggest putting a cuddle bone(from a cuddle fish) in their tank to serve the same purpose.These are those white oval-shaped slivers that you usually see pinned to the inside of a birdcage, also used to help strengthen a birds beak.

Anyway,as an alternative to the cuddle bone, they suggest egg shells. So it makes sense to use egg shells in your Kefir drink for that same purpose, as our bones are not exactly, but much like the protective shells of snails(except on the inside).

QUESTION: If you subsitute sweet 'n' low for the sugar, could you then call it "Crystal Light"?... LOL


Last edited by jimjam6702; Sun 22 Feb 2009 05:31:PM.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
You ARE amazing! I love what you have to say. And the snail story was so neato! And I love it that there is shared a personal experience, such as you looking out for Gary and finding out about eggshell, which then validates the use of eggshell in kefir water! [Linked Image]

I also remember when I first found my way to a book by Naturopath Phil Alexander, whose work inevitably (many years later in a roundabout way) led me to my passion for probiotics. Anyway, in his book he suggested grinding up eggshells to add to food for a natural supplementation of calcium. I found this very exciting until I put the shells in a blender and whuzzed them up. The smell!! freaked Animal hoof smell. And makes sense once again since we are talking about biological shell/nail/calcium stuff.

Oh, and that further reminds me of the gelatin capsules my mom used to buy to help us grow our finger nails. eyebrows

You're always leading me to great memories and new thoughts, JJ. What a treasure to have you here. clink

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
Oh I forgot to say that yes, you can use other citrus fruits. A friend with water crystals uses oranges. I tried oranges and noted a slight bitterness to my palate. I love the lemons and have not yet tired of their delicious flavour. And indeed you can use both!

Oh and I used lime once... yuck

Sugar substitute for that lovely "light" drink? Unfortunately not. noo The kefir grains require the sugar (that's what they eat). Overall you could use just sugar water and the crystals would still do their magic. But the lemon and sultanas provide a very nice flavour and probably some added vitamins and minerals.

For minimal sugar you can let the sugar be eaten almost all up by the crystals, or even after removing the crystals just by the probiotic infused water. At just the right point it tastes like a dry champagne with most of the sugar gone. Go too far and it tastes like dry white wine. A bit further, I imagine...vinegar.

If this happens (it goes too far) apparently you can add a tablespoon of sugar and it is palatable again. --Thanks for that tip from H.F.! [Linked Image]

It is a very healthy drink though and when brewed correctly, the alcohol percentage is very slight.

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 537
Payload Specialist Level 1
*****
Offline
Payload Specialist Level 1
*****
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 537
You're such a treat!

BTW, the "crystal Light" comment was meant as a joke. Here in the states, "Crystal Light" is a very big diet drink - been around 20-25 yrs & became popular as one of the first drinks to use nutra-sweet(the reason I referred to sweet 'n' low). Only after reading your above reply did it occur to me that this drink might not even EXIST for you in Australia, hence your quite serious & literal reply.

I'm sorry that I didn't think about that before I wrote in that little joke,I just assumed that you knew of the drink, & would find that little joke ticklish because of the 'play on words'...but you ended up tickling me instead, w/ your innocent seriousness.
I love when an "oops" turns into laughter!!! Thanx for that.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
I see, JJ. yes It IS funny! chuckle Crystal Light! clink

My serious side was obviously dominating me again. whip It wants to go on and on about probiotics. And I must get around to writing about WHY I am so pro-probiotics. Here's a start:

Firstly, it makes medical sense. Here is a blog that reviews the book "Probiotic Revolution" (in a few short paragraphs) which sets out to validate the medical marvels of probiotics. It might crack open the door for anyone interested in searching for their own validation. I have personally already done years of research on how to cure my allergies and asthma (and my son's) which has led to the final conclusion for me -- probiotic consumption.

But that is not even the biggest reason I consume probiotics. noo Of course I want my son and I to have better health and less reactivity to the physical world. But, for me the real impetus is spiritual. The strongest spiritual messages I've ever received stated unequivocally, "EAT PROBIOTICS, Alisa!" It was akin to people who receive religious revelations (uhm, Build an Ark, that sort of thing). I was awed and in no doubt whatsoever that this was virtually a commandment (well, not really, more a chorus of encouragement). content

[Linked Image]

It's all about eating living food. Once a food becomes host for living organisms (such as during fermentation) it becomes "alive". Consuming ferments is consuming "life". It is super food. Transformational food. If you eat it, you will feel it. That has been my experience.

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 208
Mission Specialist Level 1
*****
Offline
Mission Specialist Level 1
*****
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 208
One of the things that I always do when Im out and about that makes me feel really good is when Im near mountains that have rivers or streams running off the snow caps is to drink the water from them. I think the minerals being collected on their journey and perhaps the microbes and other micro-organisms from the fish and other living creatures in the water does it for me. It boosts my energy (both spiritual and physical). Im not really sure if its a placebo effect or not but your cares at the end of the day my theory is if it feels good do it..!!

Go for it Alisa do your thing*


I know you know I know
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
How interesting! I have had this type of stream water (so long ago now though - in my childhood hiking in the mountains of Utah). It is amazingly fresh water. I would enjoy it even more now given my belief in the life-giving properties of this type of water. Mmm! cheerful

Ooo, it kinda reminds me of that Aussie guy who drinks a bit of seawater each day. Do you know who I mean?

My kefir crystals are laying low in the fridge at the moment. With it being winter, I don't crave to drink as much and I did eventually burn out on it but know that I will want it again probably in the summer. For now I keep my crystals in a small jar of sugar water in the fridge. Every month I drain the water and drink it (tastes just as good - kinda like club soda) and savour the life force in it. Then I add more sugar water and put the crystals back in the fridge. cold

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
The kefir water crystals are back out of the fridge and doing their work. Even though it is winter here and even though I did lose my interest in my probiotics for a while, little by little the lack of good bacteria started to sway my internal balance so now I am back at it!

magic sparkle

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 537
Payload Specialist Level 1
*****
Offline
Payload Specialist Level 1
*****
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 537
happyrunYay! bottledMore Chrystal Lite! Don't forget the Sweet 'n' Low happyeyes

I didn't know that this time of year was Australia's winter. What quarter of the year is considered your summer? Could you just please tell me how all of your seasons fall, I'd be learning something here. Come to think of it, I do remember you mentiong that it is your winter in a PM, while discussing crocheting doh. Learn somethin new every day!

Are you trying any new batches of flavors with the Kefir water? I wonder how Kiwi would break down? Yummy! yes


Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
A
Alisa Offline OP
Launch Director
*****
OP Offline
Launch Director
*****
A
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 64,175
chuckle It is confusing. It still confuses me! dizzy

When it is summer there in the northern hemisphere, it is winter here. So basically, it is the opposite here of whatever you are experiencing. If it is your autumn, it is my spring. Christmas here is hot. heat

Hmm, kiwi. I love kiwi. But I decided to stick with the slice of lemon and a few sultanas (similar to raisins). It tastes great. Kind of like rose water with a touch of lemon. I've tried other things, but I like it best this simple original recipe way.

What's your family drinking (as it's summer there)? sunshine

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 537
Payload Specialist Level 1
*****
Offline
Payload Specialist Level 1
*****
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 537
Thanks A, that's interesting I guess I should have paid more attention in Geography class!

Yeah, probably best not to stray too far from the original recipe.

We are drinking lots & lots of iced tea, lemmonade & ice cold bottled water! Actually I'm getting quite thirsty just writting about it.

BRB...must have liquid!


Moderated by  Alisa 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Newest Members
Rtuneion, JohnReid, nguyenthanhthuon, Rug_Rig_Fitness, Shelly
2,957 Registered Users
Pictures

NASA Picture of the Day

Astronomy Picture of the Day

Picture of the Day

Picture of the Week

Latest SOHO Solar Image
The latest solar image from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO)

NOAA / Space Weather Prediction Center

NOAA / Space Weather Prediction Center
NOAA / Space Weather Prediction Center
Live Web Cam's
Live Sydney Harbour Bridge Looking South

Live Sydney Warringah Freeway

Live Sydney M2 Motorway Lane Cove

Live Sydney Anzac Bridge

Live Hilo Bay Hawaii

Live Australian Antarctica Casey Division

Live Australian Antarctica Mawson Division

Live Mount Fuji - Japan

Ny-Alesund - Antarctica

AUS-CITY Live Weather
IDB Weather IDB Weather
IDB Weather IDB Weather
IDB Weather IDB Weather
Top Posters(30 Days)
Webmaster 1,899
Alisa 297
Forum Statistics
Forums60
Topics689,700
Posts724,314
Members2,957
Most Online4,158
1 hour ago
Top Posters
Webmaster 381,903
Alisa 64,175
Jedi Knight 4,142
reuder 557
apsattv 517
ShaRp 408
Big Chief 377
Flux 208
HQSS 138
Copyright 1996 - 2023 by David Cottle. Designed by David Bate Jr. All Rights Reserved.
By using this forum, the user agrees not to transfer any data or technical information received under the agreement, to any other entity without the express approval of the AUS-CITY Forum Admins and/or authors of individual posts (Forum Admins and DoD/USSPACECOM for the analysis of satellite tracking data).

Two-line elements (TLE) and all other satellite data presented and distributed via this forum and e-mail lists of AUS-CITY are distributed with permission from DoD/USSTRATCOM.

UBB Central

Interactive forums from Space, Science and Technology To General Interest, Personal and Spirituality.

AtomicSecured Linux

Reprise Hosting