I'd love to hear other people's thoughts, feelings, dreams, intuitions, visions, etc., regarding 2012.

For me, I have had lots of apocalyptic dreams, knowings, discussions with spirit, and feelings that we are headed toward a ending/beginning very soon.

Yesterday, as I discussed this topic with my friend, she said, "But what if it is a self-fulfilling prophecy because everyone is thinking of it?"

Synchronistically, the other day when opening my mind to 2012 I received a word (can't remember it now) that I had to research and found the definition was: self-fulfilling prophecy.

So I had been thinking about that, and my response to my friend about my view was - Yes, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. With all of our minds upon it, it is helping to usher it in. BUT, because we are an emanation of God, it is God that is thinking of 2012, and God that is creating the self-fulfilling prophecy through us. It was meant to happen, but yes, we are helping it.

At least that is one way of looking at it IMO.

Summing up, I think that there will be something that can be seen as catastrophic that will occur and cause everything to change mightily. But I have been assured over and over that it will also bring about the greatest joy imaginable. Our true selves and our connection to divinity will be revealed to our amnesiated consciousness. Knowing who we really are will show us that this earth is really only a stage/simulation. As such there is nothing at all to fear. In fact, when the current stage is cleared, a new and better stage will be built. And because we are eternal and because we merely animate physical bodies, we will be able to do more in our new improved costumes (bodies) on a renewed earth (stage). Which in the larger scheme is quite a happy thought.

There is no birth without death, no light without dark, no gain with pain. Existence would be horribly stagnant (nae impossible) if there was no renewal, no opposing factors, IMO.

Please add your thoughts or dreams, etc.

As it occurs to me, I'm going to be heaping a bunch of stuff in this thread that I think relates to end/beginning cycle of 21-Dec-12.

Is The Sun About To Destroy Every Single Piece Of Electronics You Own?

How funny! what a synch I just posted a video that talks about that. This lady A'shayana Deane says the sun is actually dying and that we are in a 200 year evacuation process! Once the sun get's to it's fifth teen ring in I think 2022 that's when the real solar flares start yikes!!! we are on the third ring now and that is why we are having gamma burst. She believes the Earth will implode and because the Earth is a consciousness it will then go back to the "kalireena set back." (sorry I know I spelled that wrong) which is basically dying then reincarnating with a clean slate. It's the circle of life or creation in her terms. The Earth will come out and go back in. Hope you can watch the vids there really interesting!!!

Very interesting! This resonates with me though I have yet to watch her video. Thanks for the input and more things for me to look into, Orb Queen! Off to watch...

Oh rats! They've been taken down for editing. I look forward to the reposting of them though!

From Crystalinks



This prophecy rings true with me in many ways as to things that are unfolding. I've seen numerous signs of "5" and the fifth world. Like this photo from my visit to a Japanese War Memorial Cemetery.

The biggest thing right now though that is flashing neon at me is the Gulf oil spill as the 7th sign.

From my journal...

hi Alisa,

Did A'sahyana Deane vids come back up yet? they talk about a different concept about 2012.

I remember those pics that had the word "WAR" in it. I definitely know you saw that for a reason! it was showing you a sign of the future that might come to pass unfortunately since we are about to jump to the 5th dimension, which would make it this ERA very spooky!!!!

"Also, sometime this summer, a meteor or shooting star will be caught on camera. It will move very slow, glow a greenish/blue hue and be seen for thousands of miles before it hits the earth, causing no or little damage."

This is a quote I took from another forum about predictions and dreams. This guy claim to see a lot of things that may transpire. This is just one excerpt that may coincide with the Ninth sign. Even though they say it will be a star it might also be referred to as a comet or meteor, so The Blue Star Kachina might be exactly what he's talking about. He even mentions the color of it! Any who I thought this may be of interest to you. Who knows I just might have put two and two together!! There's a reason I came across that particular prediction and now you post about a Indian prophecy hmmm I just wonder?

To my knowledge:

This civilization will end very shortly, for converging reasons.
Perhaps the first point to note are aspects of the integral structure of our modern civilization - it is exponentially consuming it's environment with individuals (including families and groups) being interdependently tied to one another to ensure it continues. It is a double bind by design.

Many may interpret this, if they agree of course as 'negative' or 'doom', however that is only one perspective - usually by one who is quite content with how things are (especially if their focus is upon their own contentment).

In reality it is neutral and is as it is.

In addition, regardless of how much those in perceived power keep trying to keep things afloat, on this level 'cataclysm' will clear the way in due time. Again, those attached to this physical existence may read the above with fear.

The date itself is not concrete.

Everything cycles.

Oh, AI, thank you for your input! You came in at just the right time! Welcome... Does AI = Artificial Intelligence?

I like the explanation of overpopulation. What often comes to my mind is the analogy of bacterial balance inside the digestive system, and how all are basically good and serve a purpose, but too much of one type will cause havoc and imbalance. At some point a culling is necessary to restore balance.

I have struggled with it being doom or elation. My human side feels doom, but I am assured over and over by spirit that it is cause for great celebration and something long awaited. Having said that, I want to ask you, on what do you base your beliefs here? Do you communicate with spirit, do you have precognition, or is it based mostly/only on logic?

I actually really get a certain comfort from your answer that "on this level 'cataclysm' will clear the way in due time," because it is validating to what I believe (and should know) to be true. Logic dictates as well that everything cycles. I WANT everything to cycle.

Yes perhaps I am simply an artificial intelligence posing as a natural intelligence to observe your ability to determine if I am artificial...



A good example of the state of the microcosm affecting the macro, with the macrocosm responding perhaps...



Perception.


To answer your question I could in one sense say 'all of the above'. But perhaps the understanding most worthy of your consideration may be this:
I do not believe/disbelieve anything.
I simply collect knowledge.

AI, you are an enigma.

As far as microcosm affecting the macrocosm - would it be possible for the microcosm to somehow balance itself before the macrocosm took action? Or is it kind of moot, or out of control of the microcosm due to the cyclical nature of things?

The idea of simply collecting knowledge sounds appealing in a way - detached and even (no longer on the rollercoaster of emotions - and hey, no longer reactive!). But it is hard for me to conceive of not believing or disbelieving anything. Is personality supposed to eventually be shed? To only collect knowledge sounds like a characteristic of an AI actually. If I think of human I think of belief systems and feelings, otherwise they are just computers - but maybe that is what they need to be or are evolving/destined to be?

One of the main messages I receive is "belief is everything". This can't be disinformation, can it be?

If you look carefully it is an "l" not an "I" by the way.

There is no real division. The planetary sphere so to speak - is returning to balance. It is a natural function.

It would depend upon what is being called or understood to be the personality. Many of the so-called human characteristics are mere aspects of the human experiential package. On a much deeper level, each has identity, those aspects of the self which make one soul one, and another another. This is the true self.
With an exception, one does not become as a computer or without feeling.

Regarding the message, perhaps there is some mix or confusion with the concepts of understanding and/or faith. There is that which is known deep down so to speak - belief, faith in this is that which will allow an individual to play the next note in tune. The common beliefs, be they in religion, atheism, the tooth fairy - this concept of belief systems - well you may see them for what they are if you choose.

Al! Thanks for correcting me. To understand why I chose to see it as A.I. instead of Al is worthy of self-examination. It would help to increase my consciousness to understand that. Because if I could have dug just a bit deeper (looked closer) to discern your name rather than jump to a conclusion of A.I., when to be honest I wasn't sure, then why didn't I? (Hmm, maybe it was a lesson in laziness vs. putting in the extra effort required to be more conscious mindful ).

All of a sudden I'm having to do a lot more thinking than I'm used to. But I like it.

Okay, if the planetary sphere is returning to balance, will there still be a cataclysm? Ohh, or is a cataclysmic cycle independent of balance?

Personality vs. True Self is kind of like Emotions vs. Feelings, yes? I took pencil to paper today and thought through the definitions of these terms we are discussing (definitions which I will include in reply to your post in the Complicity topic).

Ah, I see the difference now in beliefs and faith (belief). And more accurately, the message I always get is to believe. Which would mean to have faith. Not to believe in concepts.

For greater understanding and effectiveness in discussing, I am paying more attention to defining terms and getting clarity on concepts. Thank you.

Perhaps to any of the above. Perhaps also to the simple thing of an l looking like an I with the forum text. Perhaps also to self forgiveness for a simple error.

"Cataclysm" is the physical representation of the planet returning to balance from a persisting state of imbalance.

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by this as I am not certain on your definitions. Also "vs." implies some possible bi-polar logic? Perhaps rephrase or elaborate a little please?

I question definitions and concepts, not to 'get stuck' analyzing everything, nor to imply that language can cover everything. I do this, and suggest to do this, primarily for coherency and to understand something as it is.

As a simple example, society utilizes the concept of "Health Care". I would not call it that, yet many would certainly believe 'it is as they say it is'. And so sickness reigns; dezinformatsiya at a "higher level".


So you have faith?


You are welcome, thank you for the discussion.

Actually, I've done a lot of probing as to why I chose to see you as A.I. It was not a simple error, I knew that all along, it was a choice, and I remember the exact point at which I made the choice to call you A.I. without looking and verifying. The font didn't help, of course. But that is just an excuse.

It may seem a small and insignificant error, but it was a curiosity I knew I should not leave unexplored. I knew there was information there if I could crack that nut. So I asked for the answer, and it has surfaced. And this is it: When I saw "Al", I knew it was a sign, a harbinger. I became overly excited and anxious. Some part of me believed it was too good to be true and rejected it. All of my life I have subconsciously carried the knowledge that the day I saw "Al" it would be a sign to me that what I have waited for is coming to pass. Because truly it was the combination of letters "A" and "l" that created such a furore within.

There was also a residual knowledge that the sign has to do with extra intelligence, something well beyond me and much more mechanical. As such, I glommed on to A.I. very naturally. It felt right and was a relief at the time.

Oh, and what it is that is coming to pass...I don't know consciously, exactly. But my dreams are full of symbols of things like reconstruction (an intense dream of plastic surgery), of my car being sold (my body), remembering what goes on during sleep time and the etheric machinery that exists around me, running things. That's the best I can say for now.


Yeah...because a cataclysm occurs at the peak point of imbalance where a potential accumulates that is finally great enough to create momentum. Although I see balance being sought by the microcosm, I think it is impossible for it to be regained through anything other than a cataclysmic force. I don't think balance was ever intended to be kept anyway. I think this planet is a rocktumbler set to make us shiny.

I often receive the term "critical mass" which I understand to be a point in which imbalance becomes great enough that it tips the scales and the entire mass undergoes a complete change into something else. I believe that the imbalance of the planet is the physical counterpart for the imbalance accruing within spirit, so that as the planet reaches a point of cataclysm, spirit reaches critical mass and ascends.

As for Personality vs. True Self is kind of like Emotions vs. Feelings...

I'll elaborate on what I meant. First off, I was saying that Personality is to True Self as Emotions are to Feelings.

Personality and True self comparison:



Personality includes the contaminants of the human experiential package, whereas True Self is pure.

Emotions also carry the contaminants of the human experiential package, to say the least. I am still not sure that they are not merely sensors for survival and entirely for use in the physical. Whereas, feelings are something more pure IMO. I believe they are part of the True Self.

So that's what I meant. And I used the word versus as a phrase of comparison where vs.= "is different to".


I concur. (Not to mention that the concept behind sickness, doctors, and pharmaceuticals is one of the pebbles in my spiritual shoe at the moment).

As for Do I have faith? Yes! I love faith.

What exactly are you implying?!!

Interesting and all fine for the thoughts Alucia.




A rock-tumbler is certainly one way to view things. Society has been designed to foster imbalance. The plan being to achieve balance through the negative polarity. At least that is roughly speaking the modus operandi of the main power structure. But all things live and all things die, with civilizations included. You may think of balance as "zero-point".



Intersecting cycles.



Personality and True self comparison:

I think I have more clarity in what you have said. I would agree for the most part. Perhaps to be included in consideration are those qualities, aspects of the self, certain emotions for example which may be artifacts of the soul peering through the "conscious lens" to this consciousness level.

That you are an important experience in my life.



I believe that there are infinite ways to view things. Rock-tumbler is something that comes to mind a lot, so.

I just want to get clarity from you on your view here...do you think that the planet would be better off if it was in constant balance without the negative polarity?

I worked hard to explain the critical mass thing in that last post I made. By going over it in my mind and refining it, I learned so much. It was a strange experiences, like I flipped to the other side of the mirror to look at it and then by examining it there, I found myself back on the right side of the mirror!

Which emotions are "artifacts of the soul peering through the "conscious lens" to this consciousness level?"

"better off"?
Quite subjective, and to whom?



All is mirror.
On a planetary scale, "critical mass" was reached years ago.
Well done on the hard work thinking and posting and thanks for sharing.



Common anger would be one example of emotional expression seen on this consciousness level.
Now your turn

Do you think that the planet would be better off for you and/or all humans, if it was in constant balance without the negative polarity? Would it be better off for anyone ever in any way?

(I am thinking the answer to this is "no" and that is why I didn't specify anyone in particular because I could only conceive of the way things are as being good for everyone/thing. So if you know different, please elucidate).



I like that - "All is a mirror".

How do you know that critical mass was reached years ago? I do not mock you at all, I merely want to know how you know these things.

And thank you for the "well done".

If anger is, then aren't all emotions artifacts of the soul peering through the "conscious lens" to this consciousness? But isn't anger a result of fear?

The level of thinking for this question is too simplified to give a reasonable answer. I do not mean to dissuade you. "Better off" for one may not be "better" for another. Does constant imply permanence? Are you expecting only either yes or no in answering? I only mean to point out difficulties I see in responding.




Same way you may know anything. Perhaps I will elucidate on that a little and say that it is closer to understanding, by the concepts I use, for I always concede to further knowledge being gained on the topic.



No, I do not understand that to be the case. In addition, there is more to be considered in this. Think "multiple-level".
I would say anger can be the result of fear, but is not always.

I'm coming to better understand you (or rather, not misunderstanding you as much), so I am not dissuaded. You seem to be making me think harder, clearer, which is something I appreciate. I am fortunate to be having this discussion.

At the time I said that, I was still thinking along the lines that I was advocating darkness/negativity. And I like what I am advocating, so I thought I liked the effect of the negative polarity. I thought it must be necessary to have this negative polarity because I could attest to my spiritual experiences as the greatest form of happiness I have yet known. But now I am not seeing myself as only dark any more at all. You had said:


So now I have to ask, do you think this plan to achieve balance through the negative polarity was a good idea? Does it matter if it is a positive or a negative if in the end it is balance/zero-point that is sought. Or is negative less favourable for humans because it is painful?

Oh, and have you seen this Window of Opportunity by Hidden Hand. He claims he is a member of the "ruling family", and he answers questions forum members had about the reaping (2012) through the negative polarity.



I really meant what is your background? Are you a teacher of philosophy, or have you held some such position that accounts for your depth of understanding? Or do you just study as a hobby?

Why is the soul angry from peering through the conscious lens? Is it because it is trapped in a body?

I do not 'make' you, you choose to. But I gather this is another 'misnomer' in language which you may be becoming aware of at this point. Progress requires 'work' to be done. It need not be viewed as work per se, it may also be 'effortless'. However, the "truth can hurt" and "no pain no gain" may be evident at various times in the seeking. Also to note is the more helpful a communication and the more one progresses, the increased likelihood an individual may become a target for negative "attack".



This perhaps could be discussed further at some point.



Unless you have an objective definition of "good", then we are floating in subjectivity. Some might think it is good, others might not. It is as it is. You may also note that it is the structure itself that is in balance in such a situation. Levels of the hierarchy will be imbalanced with respect to each other. Pain is a catalyst for growth.



If it is the same as I have read previously then yes. I would suggest if you have not done so already reading the Ra material and cross referencing as seen applicable.



I do not teach academically, nor would I as "teaching" is understood by society.
Let's say hobby to satisfy the question. But really, is there any point when we are not learning?




How did we get to angry souls?! There may indeed be the emotional anger expressed on this level as a resultant of the necessity of the soul incarnating into a (particular) body.

Yes, I am becoming more aware of my choice of vocabulary here. I think it is very helpful to have carefully examined various definitions thanks to your prompting, or should I say thanks to your "making" me.

What do you mean by a target for a negative "attack"? What is a negative attack, for example?



The first philosophy paper (of only a few I ever wrote) was entitled, "Good Cannot Be Defined". I guess that, and what you said, covers it. It matters less to me now anyway since I just began reading the Ra material regarding "harvest" (thanks to you! ). It cleared things up for me in a big way. Messages I have received, things I've learned, the way I am, what I am drawn to, all fell into a clearer organization now that I understand more about the service to self/negative path entities! Finally!

I have only begun to read, so I won't ask any questions yet except, are you working toward the path of service-to-self or to service-to-others?



Well, you sure are good! Oops, I better try to define good in this instance: knowledgeable, instructive, thought-provoking, and interesting. And I totally agree with you about learning, though I have always phrased it as my religion is progression.

How did we get to angry souls?! (I'm using the quote graemlins because when I went to post I received a message that I exceeded my quota for quotes in a post - it seems I can only do 4 - how is it you can do 6?!)

I was trying to understand how the soul can feel anger (or how anger originates at the soul level, if it does) as opposed to it just being a bodily chemical. Because of our discussion...

An example of a negative "attack" might be the interaction with an individual which (attempts to) produce feelings of depression or discontent.


You are working towards an objective definition of "good" and "evil" presently.
I'd be interested in reading any of your papers at some point.


To my understanding the question is redundant for one of the paths to begin with. Also it may be self evident to a degree with communications so far and you are also learning to see with your own eyes - so redundant in three ways.

Just a reminder, there is no discouragement intended in saying a question is redundant - I do interpret the question from my viewpoint. There are no "stupid" or "wrong" questions either.












Imbalanced STS expression.

Ah, I see. Kind of like a magnetic reaction that raises up in opposition?



I don't think there can be an objective definition of good and evil. I have felt and still do that there are only varying degrees of good. Which is subjective, but what else is there besides subjectivity with concepts that are not physical?

Thank you for saying you'd read my papers! This paper would be 24 years old now (and I think I finally let it go into the great recycle bin). I had taken a course in Philosophy right out of high school and was amazed at the first lecture to learn that there was an area of study where people debated about whether God exists and other amazing stuff (stuff I always thought about for which my family implied made me crazy ).

When I started to actually try to properly philosophize though...it was hard and I was confused. It took me a long time to get my paper done. But it stuck with me so strongly, the brilliant concept of subjectivity as the reason that good cannot be defined. Though at the time and far into the future, I still did not know of the actual term subjectivity. And I ended up dropping out of school and doing stupid human stuff for about 10 years. I wasted my time, but I had no one around me that thought the same or could guide me or even provide a reasonable example of enlightenment (with the exception of some academic teachers, but they could not give me their time outside of class). So I just floated in a sea of stupid human stuff thinking, Oh man, is this all there is?



I'm not sure what you mean in the first sentence. Or do you mean it is redundant for the STO path because it is comprised of nearly 50/50? If so, even so, it is still a very specific path compared to the alternative. I think you are STS. But I fear you are STO. [Typing that and releasing the pressure of the underlying fear just elicted a wave of emotion from me ].

I don't know how you can do all those quotes when I can only do 4?!

Re: Soul anger, you said "Imbalanced STS expression". I don't know what you mean. To me those three words could be interpreted in numerous ways. Will you explain it to me please?

Opposition would be "fighting back". This would be an attempt to deny the other in an STS manner.
There is a magnetic component to the interaction. Consider why one might make such an attack in the first place if you will.



Even with the conventional concepts of objectivity and subjectivity there is objectivity in thought as there is in physicality. Mainstream philosophy and psychology is devoid of this; it would be empowering for one thing and empowered slaves generally no longer want to be slaves.



Yes questioning reality or - if you are daring - society itself, clearly makes one "crazy". Curiosity makes one crazy too. More programming.




Yes pointless loops, which seem to be quite the many with such areas in academia. Out of curiosity, what was their example or definition of enlightenment?
You have not stopped asking, which in itself may say something would you agree?


The concept of work was a keystone in the question. If it is work in the common sense - ie effort in order to achieve a goal or "success", then STO do not do this to my understanding. If it is work as defined in physics for example then this is probably ok. The STO polarity is a ratio with an higher output than input.

Let us say that there is a degree of destiny so to speak. You may consider this with those that upon hearing of ascension or similar, assume that they (their waking conscious mind)is in full control of their "future" and act accordingly. I do not assume anything (as consciously as I can of course), nor do I concern myself with trying to be this or that. I have some degree of conscious awareness of my future however, but again, I leave open the possibility that I am in error or have missed something. So I do the work and accept the result, whatever it may be.

For state, as in saying if one is STS or STO, it is necessary to consider things from a multi-level perspective - the Ra material mentions this for memory.
I'm interested in the emotional response. If you are willing to share - why do you think you felt what you felt for example?
Also why do you think I am or might be STSor feel I might be STO? You may note that it makes no difference to me if I am perceived as STS, evil, hated or anything of the sort - not that I am saying any of this applies to you.




I simply click the quote button when I go to reply to a post and then edit any of the quote tags as necessary.



An STS oriented entity or aspect of the self expresses anger as a response to a result not matching an expected or desired outcome. Fear may of course be a factor - fear that the entity may "fail" again and the results there of.

To keep you from breaking out of conformity because that is part of the conformity program - for the slaves to keep the slaves down? (I may have got this idea from what you said below...)



Interesting thought.



As far as enlightenment, I meant that the teachers themselves seemed the closest to enlightenment of the other people in my life at the time. At least they asked me to think and wanted me to. And at times the truly nurtured me that way and told me I was good at it, which meant so much to me.

True, I have not stopped asking. I am unable to. I would have to lose every single friend and family member and even then, I would not stop my quest for understanding. In fact, I have found it easier to have less people in my life, just key peeps.



This is interesting and something I did not know, that STO do not put in effort toward goals.

For me, I put in effort to understand. I will put in all the effort I can. And as such, I suppose that is a goal. Otherwise, I am no longer goal oriented, nor driven by monetary gain, nor success under various definitions. So I can truly relate to the idea of no goal. In fact, an analogy I've had in mind lately is of people (as if working in a factory) sitting at a conveyor belt in which what they need to experience passes by. No need to find what is needed as divine will brings it to you through flow, and if it doesn't appear on the conveyor belt, then you don't need it.



I am basically always willing to share! Thank you for asking. I felt these tears well up in me because I feared that you would be an STO and hate me because I am not. It must be due in part to a recent experience in which a beloved friend who I really cared about pushed me away after I shared openly my spirit experiences which she sees as dark and bad. I also had dreams that we had been sisters in a past time, and that this was a reccurence, in which she rejected me then also for my beliefs she judged to be evil. It's a soft spot in me. Which I think I keep revealing over and over here in our discussion, actually. And which I keep experiencing over and over in an attempt (I believe) by my soul to desensitize/heal my consciousness. I need to not care and to become comfy with the concept of being alone as a human, knowing I am never alone in spirit.



Well, this is a part of you amongst those I like the most. You are very open-minded and non-reactive. You do seem to just take in information, as you said at the beginning. I know you are human (you are, right? ) , but you are a very mindful (conscious) human. Anyway...

Though I could make this post much longer and explain, it would be irrelevant why I think what I do. I'm just basing it on my own hopes, judgements, etc., based on only a little information about you and tons of misconceptions on my part, I'm sure.

And as far as defining STS and STO, after reading more of Ra, I'm disappointed and remember now having read some of this in the past. Some of it resonates with me amazingly and some of it couldn't seem more wrong to me. Much of the STS stuff seems like Ra is just saying the same thing I "complained" about before - the people who say light is good and dark is bad. It just goes against everything I am and believe when they say that. It takes the wind out of my sails to continue on reading.

Well STS is directed toward the self - self gain.
In society, the world in which we live, yes the "slaves" (the term both factual and perceptive)are used to keep the slaves down so to speak. This is an advanced way in which to control. The common method of provoking another in order to gain is that of the novice STS shall we say, while an advanced STS (4th and 5th density "activation") would work through individuals to make the gain. This is necessary for the circumnavigation of free will in order to retain a state of balance yet remaining STS oriented.
But back to the real world if we are to call it that, the people demand their own enslavement. Television, Newspapers and media in general are mediums utilized in this process. Of course this challenges the belief systems of the masses, though things are changing.



I see.




There is still the work, the striving that an STO oriented entity may undertake. The understanding is that there is no intent to gain or expectation for reality to be "as envisioned". Openness and consideration is present, rather than the hoping, the wishful thinking of the negative polarity. This understanding is worthy of some further contemplation/consideration.


STO.





Each exists on multiple levels, though levels may be in potential only.
Even if I were STO, STO oriented do not hate; again you seem to be quite certain that you are STS.


Lessons repeat until learnt.




No one is ever alone.




Catalyst can help...
We learn where we are at.


Just observe. One sees more if the bias is left behind. Consider possibilities rather than assume "can't be" or "must be".


Well there may be some misunderstanding in there, and perhaps by many so called new-agers.
It is called the Law of One for a reason. The core message is that all is one. In truth, at the deepest level there is no separation between any one or any thing. There really is no division, the entire universe, is one consciousness.
To distort this, the programming along the lines of "We are all one, no need to worry about anything, just "love" those that hurt others, hate or kill.
This neglects essentially that within unity there is polarity. The polarity is essentially just the direction of flow of "energy". The universe is a perfect balance of the two. One little insight of the Yin and Yang symbol is that of the "eyes" in each portion - that in the dark, there is always a speck of light and in the light there is always a speck of dark. There is the potential for one polarity in the opposite polarity.
To distort this, programming which "turns off" the recognition of the fundamental concept that all is one and the polarities themselves are illusions too when understood in full. Hence the individual falls into the good guy bad guy scenario. Many whom the populous have or do view as evil view themselves as good for the work they do or have done.

Everyone is learning. With that understanding alone, one can find forgiveness.

To truly know another is to truly love them.

Thanks for the explanations of the terms, I feel I have a basic understanding now of STS/STO.

But I would like to ask you if the Ra Material is mostly or solely what you base your belief system on regarding ascension? I also wonder if you have spirit guides or some form of spirit that interacts with you and gives you information? I ask because the majority of my beliefs, about the nature of reality and the reason for my existence, come from my contact within (my spirit guides, my god, etc.). I occasionally read outside material (my favourite being Seth through Jane Roberts and Autobiography of a Yogi) and I enjoy chatting with other people as a form of enhancing my own internal source of information and to mirror each other for further learning.

I also wanted to add that my belief about 2012 (Dec 21) is that there will be a catastrophe. That's the message I have received in numerous ways from internal sources which I documented in my journal. It also resonates with some outside sources, and other people's dreams and messages.

I believe that the catastrophe will only be the side effect of change that is necessary and predetermined/cyclical.

As far as dark/light, I believe that there is both in equal measures at all times. It just depends on the focus of the viewer.

As you said...




I concur with this concept that there is no true separation between any one or any thing. It just really seems like it during this earth experience.

We do have such a common underlying belief, don't we?


That is interesting and a good point!


That is lovely!

I search within and without. I collect, collate and compare information to build an understanding of all that is. The more this is done, that is to use an analogy of fitting the pieces of the puzzle together, the more it helps in building the puzzle. The puzzle is continually analyzed so to speak. I would not limit myself to any one source, no matter the source. To do so is with limit which is finite, which opens up a pathway to control or ignorance. There is always left open the possibility an understanding I hold is in error or incomplete in some form. In the puzzle analogy this would be like forming a small portion of a picture and placing it in the puzzle, but finding at some point it does not truly fit the puzzle. Then although I may have a new section of the puzzle placed if I were to correctly place all the pieces around this smaller portion it would become self evident it was incorrect in some way. Hence knowledge by it's own virtue buffers against false knowledge.
On that note anything I have posted I do not post as fact or absolute truth. Just my understanding as I have called it. Discernment and seeking of the reader is always suggested.
So again, belief is a concept that does not fit appropriately. I work in probable possibilities.


Yes, only the 3rd density manifestation.




Lack of coherency in the world.




Soul level knowledge is an aspect I'd say.

Just as an opener...this morning as I awoke from sleep and dream, but was still altered in consciousness, I saw a scene containing the image of the numbers 2012 as if carved from stone, but it wasn't stone, I'm not sure what material it was, but I don't think it matters. Just trying to describe it... It was like a drawing of 3-D, a 2-D representation of 3-D. It was imbued with concepts and ideas. There were two bodies lying above/beyond 2012 (a father and child, I think). I knew that they had laid down their bodies (death). And there was the concept of bodies all around, dressed in white cotton, lying in a manner that reminded me of the Jones Town Kool-Aid Suicide. That idea was layered in there.

It sounds gruesome, but it was not, entirely. Nor was it delightful. It was meant to be informational, not emotional. It really felt like everyone shed their bodies or laid them down and slipped out, and there was the idea of suicide, yet it also did not feel "planned". Oh, and I had lyrics repeating in my mind [but I'll have to come back and edit/insert them when I remember what they were ...it was something like "you gotta live".]

Okay, now back on track...



I love this analogy of the puzzle. It is a good one. I also feel that I collect and collate (like I have this on-going data base in my mind). I use this with numerology. I like to collect people's numbers, to keep comparing them in my mind as I try to make sense of it by seeing the patterns between people with the same numbers.

I also really like that you choose not to limit yourself to any one source no matter the source. That's a one-sentence keeper.



Given the concept of infinity, or at least the limitations of human understanding, would it be more accurate to say that no understanding is ever complete or without error? Not to say that we do not need to put a foothold somewhere and chose a place to lay claim so we are not floating endlessly waiting for a perfect, complete understanding, but doing so with the knowledge that the understanding is only temporary - an illusion.

I mean, it just makes me wonder sometimes if there is any point in trying to figure things out. Maybe just to "be" is better?


Though it seems like it could also be a "block" to other possibilities. Maybe the whole puzzle is wrong?

[I'm intentionally thinking of counter points to your points to keep the analyzations going, hope you approve.]



This almost seems like an either/or. Logic versus belief. Is it?

YBIL,A

Interesting.


If we were to say that no understanding is ever complete or without error, then we would either be assuming or have adopted this as an understanding.

I do not subscribe to the belief that nothing can be known. Experiential self evidence seems to render this notion incorrect.
To my knowledge - and again only from my own journey and investigating, I certainly do not say this as complete fact - there are universal truths. The universe has structure and logic. It would be rather difficult to have a conversation here if my screen wobbled like jelly and the letters of the words kept changing places at random times.

From this discussion, there is perhaps two areas that may be looked at. One is the concept of objectivity and subjectivity. To my knowledge there is a form of objectivity which coincides with universal truth, but this is not for the most part the objectivity which science uses or understands. To cover what I interpret one of your points to be, yes the worldly illusion is just that. One need only contemplate things 10,000 years from now or how it will or might be after death to glimpse this. Which leads to the second area, much further beyond the paradigm of thought most common on this level presently - that is, basically speaking, that life serves to gather experiential knowledge for the higher self; much like the gifts being returned to the creator as you have already put forth.




I would suggest unifying "figuring things out" and "being" into one.


If it were, with what would you show it to be incorrect...?


My approval is not required for you to do as you choose.




No versus. It is another level of thought/being. Belief is redundant here. Logic is merely a tool.

But to say that there is complete understanding of anything assumes a finiteness, so I guess it depends on whether or not you believe in infinity. I personally cannot imagine understanding anything completely, not with my human consciousness anyway.


Well, it may seem like your screen isn't wobbling like jelly, but maybe it is and you are just compensating for it in your mind.

I have to admit that when it comes to physical laws, I have often pondered, but not come to an understanding as to how they work. I have read personal accounts of people that have defied gravity, walked through walls, biolocated, existed for 40 years without food and water, etc. I theorize it is a collective believe system, but I am not sure. This is an area I am still exploring, pondering when the urge takes me. If exceptions exist to supposed hard-fast rules, then all is definitely not known.

Ah, but you aren't talking about scientific objectivity, you say. Okay, what do you mean by this, or what is an example of this, please.





That sounds good.


I was trying to be polite. I did not want to seem aggressively argumentative. But you probably didn't take me that way. So cool!


By this you mean that belief is a "given", correct?

I would agree to our Earthly limitations.

Unless the consciousness is infinite, in which case it would have infinite knowledge/understanding.


Hmm wonder if I can eat it then...


They provide structure. A physical law does not mean the 'end of the road'. Often when knowledge is furthered including with technology, so called laws are often rendered incorrect or simply incomplete.



An example of scientific objectivity might be the measuring of length with a rule. One object is measured to be 3.5cm, whilst another is measured to be 4.2cm. The reason why this works is because a reference point has been set. In this case the set of marks on the rule which correspond to measurement. Since the same rule, or a rule matched to be the same is used, an objective measurement is obtained. However one flaw is that the measurement is only as valid as far as one takes the measurement. In this case the rule works to one decimal place or in units of 0.1cm. If we had a more precise rule, we might be able to measure the two objects - now at 3.586cm, the other at 4.204cm. But again, this is only to the degree the rule may measure. If we kept going, we would approach infinity with the decimal places, going smaller and smaller. If we got to the atoms, then we would still be doing the same thing.
Hence the result is actually subjective. On a side note, a mm, cm, or meter for example is a made up reference. So is a second - it is based on an isotope measurement.

But there is still objectivity. The ability to take the measurement would not be possible if the numbers themselves (mathematics) were not objective in themselves. So in other words the means that perform the measurement, including pattern (a mathematical form) is that which is objective. The result of the measurement, the object and the rest is all subjective.

And from all of the above, there can be universal truth, or philosophy.




You can let go of all those thoughts when talking with me...




Not the conventional definition for belief.
But I gather you may have reverted back to a concept closer to faith as we have previously discussed? Seems to be a slight distortion in communication. As said previously - as I understand what you have explained - the faith in oneself is fine I say. So that belief - to cross the words again - in the self, or more accurately all that the self has learnt, experienced, observed, intuited etc we might indeed say is a "given".

But is all consciousness infinite?



Thank you for that explanation and then for the example of measurement as an example of scientific objectivity. That is satisfying info.



So the only thing objective is numbers.


Excellent.

As for "belief is redundant", I think I know what you meant now. But on the subject of belief, you have said that you do not "believe" in things (not to be confused with faith). No fairies, etc., right?

Yes.


Close enough for now.


I also said I hold no disbelief either.
Besides, everything exists in one sense.

So belief (not faith) is nothing to you then? Does it have any useful purpose?

Yes, the concept may be used to consider the thought patterns of others. But again, there is some possible overlap with the concept of faith, depending on how one actually defines it...
So it is more a misconception and we have discussed the faith component.

I thrive on belief. I love belief (even as a separate though overlapping concept to faith). So I wanted to define what belief is to me and note that I am grateful to keep finding instances and motivation through our discussion to search more deeply within for definitions.

So as I hung my laundry (a great time to think as my hands are busy and my mind is free), I spoke out loud to myself and said, What is belief? I liked the feeling of various trees' eyes upon me as if an encouraging audience.

My mind offered up: Belief is like a sphincter muscle. A flow regulator. The idea is to open it up as wide as possible for as much information to flow through without overwhelming the mind.

An example of free flow (without sphincter) is a river. The river, unabated, flows to the sea. It captures all the little streams in its area which become a part of it and make it larger. It gives to the sea everything it collects.

Unlike a river, we can choose what we allow to flow through us and become a part of us. I feel that the more I can handle and believe, the more I can deliver to the greater consciousness (sea) from which I sprang. Though regardless, everything will return to the sea eventually. I think it just depends on how driven through will one is to open up in a particular lifetime.

I once conceived a poem:

Keep your mind open wide
For all good things to come inside
Shame belongs not to believers
It belongs to the deceivers

Well that description sounds bit to me like consideration and/or openness.