This thread is not meant to offend anyone. For those who dissagree, I respect your decission & personal beliefs. However, these are mine...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9f0XU_S78
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frwlyx2u8JE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovFFZ4iEFCo

I watched the first video and found it interesting. So is the whole idea that "Son of God" is symbolic and astrological? Or what is your summary of your belief.

I think son of god means you and me..!!

Hey my Peeps,

Before writing this, let me first put out a disclaimer of sorts to say that in no way do I mean to offend,hurt, or disrespect anyone or their beliefs. My intention is just to get people's thoughts on this subject. In expressing my thoughts or beliefs below, I may forget to preclude a sentence w/ "my view is...", or "for me...", or " I believe...". In this instance please understand that the absence of those words does not mean in any way that I think my beliefs rule, I just simply forgot to include the words. As an overall tone to this reply, please keep in mind that these are just my beliefs, & I in no way mean to insinuate that they are the "RIGHT" beliefs, or the "ONLY" beliefs one should have.

Now get a snack & a cold pop, cause you're in for the long haul as I have plenty to say on this....

Everyone is right! Whatever you believe about Jesus is right. I myself have struggled w/this subject my WHOLE life. I think it may be one of my life's themes.

I started out a Catholic schoolgirl, who stood strong in my faith...until I didn't! I had spent all of my adolescent life arguing w/myself about the things in the Bible & Jesus that didn't make sense to me, & the things about religion in general that didn't make sense. I remember getting sent to the principals office(head nun) at my private school, because I questioned this aspect of the Bible, my question was during religion class and was this...."If Cane & Able were brothers, the direct descendants and children of Adam & Eve, then WHERE did the 'woman' that they fought over come from? In the Bible it says that Adam & Eve were the first two human beings placed on earth, and when they procreated, they produced two sons, Cane & Abel. So where did this elusive woman that caused one brother to kill another, come from?" That question got me suspended for 3 days.

Then I again during religion class, asked this..."If we don't commit some of these sins in the 10 commandments, then how will we learn? How will we learn the lessons we are here to learn, if never given the chance to experience the consequences & lessons that come w/the sinner aspect of humanity?"For that one, I was given 1 day suspension, & had to write "I will not question God or the Bible" 500 times!

The last straw, was when again during religion class, we were getting ready to go across the street for Mass. It was confession day at church, & as usual everyone was expected to confess in private to a priest. I sat in my pew as one child after the other came out of the confessional with their penance. When it was my turn to go, & I didn't get up, my priest came & prompted me to hurry along into the booth to make my confessions. I replied w/this, "It's OK if I miss it, God doesn't NEED me to confess my sins out loud to a priest." My priest was stunned & literally took a step back from me, as if my blasphemy was contagious! Later in the head nun's office(AGAIN), I was asked to elaborate on what I had said earlier at confession. And so I did. I think the part they mostly had a problem w/was this... "My God doesn't judge me the way your God does, & it doesn't matter to him WHO I confess my sins to, as long as I take responsibility for my own actions, learn from them, and right my wrongs through self forgiveness, and asking for the forgiveness of the ones I've hurt...if you believe SINS even exist."

That one nearly got me expelled, & they actually refused to let me accept holy communion (being able to go to the alter to accept the body & blood of Christ[wine & waffer]), as the rest of my class did. This was actually alright by me,as the whole communion ritual seemed redundant to me anyway.Then evidently THAT wasn't enough punishment in their eyes, so they further forbade me to make my confirmation( a ritual that in essence, is me making the conscious admittance of no longer being a child & confirming that I was now solely responsible for my actions & sins as an adult).A right of passage for a catholic adolescent in 7th grade. This again seemed redundant to me anyway, so I was bothered by being banned from it, not in the least.

The whole concept of constantly begging for God's forgiveness, being baptized so he'll accept me in the first place, accepting the body & blood of a man they say died for sins I haven't committed yet, confirmation that I am responsible for me, confession that I am a guilty human or a sinner, sins in general, guilt for who I am & what 'wrong act' got me here, fear that if I sway from the ten RULES that I would burn in hell, and finally that God is really nothing but EGO,..."love me & only me,or burn in hell as I am a jealous God." NONE of that worked for me. It was totally off base of my perception of a loving, forgiving(w/out having to be asked) God, A God who doesn't judge me for the mistakes I make, for they are my learning tools, A God that says "I don't care what you believe ,as long as you know & remember WHAT & WHERE you came from, and that I am ALWAYS w/you because I am you, and you - me, as we are 'one' together. A god that encourages me to sin & to be sinned against, because otherwise I won't get the lesson of duality, & what pos/neg does to a soul if not perfectly BALANCED. A God that says "there is nothing that you will EVER do to make me not love you, You chose to come here to earth, to enlighten your mind & start your soul's evolution, and as such you have CHOSEN to learn every aspect of being human - even the bad aspects of humanity, so how could I berate, belittle, judge, & punish you, for something WE BOTH agreed to let you experience & learn from?"

Now let me make some things clear, I have always known that God is real(except when atheist for 2 yrs in my confusion), But the Jesus thing has always confused me. I won't go into all of the inconsistencies on Jesus, because I understand that some people still hold the "Son of God" depiction very close to their hearts,& I would never want to be seen as a naysayer, trying to create conflict. What I will say, is that there is much that doesn't make sense to ME where the Christian Jesus is concerned. And from this confusion I was actually Atheist for about two years. Hey, not knowing what to believe left me in a space of default ya know? To me, the inconsistencies w/Jesus & the Bible, just made the inconsistencies on God more obvious...so I started to doubt God too.

After two years of soul searching, I realized that I was no more comfortable believing in "no God" as I was believing in a Christian God. And so my journey began to find God, the truth about Christ, & why I couldn't accept this God. My conclusion was that the Bible & the Jesus thing was the reason I was having such a hard time accepting God. I knew in my heart that we live more than just one life, an idea that Christianity doesn't support. I also knew that man wrote the bible, & upon many thousands of years it has been interpreted, misinterpreted, revised, passed down, reinterpreted and passed down again as the end all truth. I wouldn't have a problem w/it if it had a disclaimer on the first page stating..." These are the writings of man, they are merely the interpretations of the way some believe things unfolded. However Christianity doesn't claim to be the foremost authority on this subject,as we are all man, just trying to find our way to the same place we all came from. Believe what you choose as long as it brings you home to source at the end. Have a great journey & keep an open mind."

To me that would make it easier to find your own path, but that isn't the way it is presented. You either have to accept this as the only truth or on judgment day you will be left behind. I'm sorry, but I can't swallow that. To me it's like giving a group of people a destination to meet up at, with many routes to take, but only being ALLOWED to take the 'marked' route. And if you move off course, then you'll never find your way. I don't understand that.

So I began to strip away the guilt, the fear,the Bible & it's rules, Christianity,religion, the priests, the confessionals, the begging, the church, the sinning, original sin, right, wrong, the punishments, the judging...all of it! Until there was nothing left but ME & God! MY relationship with God. Bare,stripped, & naked of anything that prohibits my direct link to God/self/universe. Once I removed all of the human fear based ideas of God, I better understood WHO I really am. And what my purpose here is.And why it was so hard for all those years for me to find my spiritual nitch. Because I as an individual & as a part of source, know in my universal mind/heart/soul that I can't operate from fear. And to me Jesus represented fear. Fear that I wasn't as perfect a child as he to our father(when I actually believed that God was our 'FATHER'), fear that Jesus died for me and I might not be making his death worth his sacrifice. Fear that if I didn't do right, I would be sent to hell to burn for eternity(by the way I can't think of any OTHER father that would punish his own children in that way for even a second, let alone for Eternity!), fear that if I wasn't baptized like Jesus, I wouldn't be accepted by my own father in his kingdom(which I'm sorry but to me is like God asking for a DNA TEST before allowing me to come back home!), fear that if I questioned even one of his rules, or any of Jesus' teachings or motivations that I would be considered in God's eyes 'blasphemous"(sp?). So how did I let go of the fear? I let go of everything else but God. I let go of everything that I had been taught, & just kept the idea of my forgiving, loving, teaching, healing, comforting nonjudgmental God in my head at all times & followed where my instincts took me from there....and a trail or two of breadcrumbs, that God & I left along the way.

So in the end for me it was letting go of the guilt & fear that went along w/the Christian Bible & the Christian Jesus, so that I could better concentrate on my spiritual path, & build a stronger rapport with the God I believed in.
Now as an adult, I believe that the meaning of J C Son of God, is a representation of many things. Yes, I personally believe that J C is a physical interpretation of our astrological sun & also as Flux said above,"of us".I find it hard to conceive that out of all the planets in our solar system, all the solar systems in the galaxies, & all the galaxies in the universe, that our 'one little planet' is the only planet to have been graced with God's physical Son. Why us? Why earth? Why would the "truth" be shown here, where I also might add, we are represented as the ONLY works of God in his reflection of himself. I would have to wonder why the story of The son of God would only be told, or would have only taken place on ONE planet in such a vast universe. To me it just makes more sense to look at Jesus as a more universal figure, than a biblical figure who walked our earth as the Son of God, because the idea of JC in my opinion, IS universal.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, these are just my own personal beliefs, & I don't doubt the validity of the Christian J C, I just feel more comfortable with the astrological version of J C. I understand not everyone will feel the same on this, & that's OK with me, as we would all be quite boring if we didn't have such different views. And our minds would have no exercise, if there was just one simple answer.Our different views on this is literally what makes up the 'fabric of humanity', & I think instead of everyone trying to agree on one idea of Jesus, that our lesson is actually to more accept the many different aspects of this figure & respect the beliefs of others.Maybe the holy wars wouldn't thrive if we changed our objective as a people from "be ,think, & believe alike or else" to instead "be, think & believe what you choose,as we are all one,with many different aspects to our whole!" - I think part of our journey here is to accept & encourage different aspects of religion, spirituality, the meaning of life, God, Jesus, - if we already knew all of the answers, or just one answer to the universal question "what are we", we would be defeating the purpose that we came here for. Our path is to discover & accept, that although we all are extensions of the same 'whole or source', we are at still at the same time, individuals working our way back to being one mind...and in 'one' mind many different views exist.

For me, I've learned through life that there are stages of faith, & belief in that faith. I am at the stage where JC doesn't have to have a physical form in my mind. I make a lot of reference to thanking the universe, or affirming through the universe, or learning on a universal level about things. This is my reference to God. I believe that God whom some would call our father doesn't have a male persona, God to me is just the purest form of energy. I believe that God is made up of both female & male energy - dual energy. The same dual energy that resides in every thing from here to the stars & beyond. I see our Son of God as "our" sun of God( the sun of our existence). Without the sun of God we wouldn't exist here on earth. I pretty much concur w/everything in those video clips, It's amazing that it took me half my life to put all of those pieces together, & then one day I find that video, and it's all there all in one nice neat little packet...kind of like my own personal Bible.

My mom & I spent the last ten years of her life trying to find the true meaning of Jesus, we delved into ancient Egyptian writings, Pagan writings, astrology, Buddhism etc., & what we continuously found, was that Jesus to society is a person, & he was represented all over the world as many different names, but the same person - age after age. But in reality J C is our sun, & 'us' - the human part of God.
I do believe that Jesus actually walked the earth, but as the son of God? No, as one hell of a great prophets, & visionary. I do believe he had much to teach & did. I love & respect his love for humanity, & think he was a perfect example of "This is what we originally come from, & this is what it looks like in physical form when you live it". But I don't believe in living my life through the guilt I'm supposed to feel for his sacrifices for my sins. First I would have to believe in sin - which I do not. Then I would have to believe that instead of karma (Buddhist for " I'm rubber your glue" as I tell my children), to teach us of our mistakes & accomplishments, that It's all up to one superior being who judges than punishes to teach us. Sorry guys I just can't - everything in my being tells me this is a misconception of God.

I'm comfortable in my belief, and find it sometimes hard for others to see it from my perspective.but that's not what is important in my journey. What is important ,is for ME to see it from that perspective, as it is my OWN lesson to learn here. I respect any ones opinion on Jesus, & don't argue right from wrong, because there is no' right or wrong' feeling on the subject. Feelings aren't 'right or wrong'...they just ARE.

I hope this hasn't ticked anyone off, I only meant to put it out there kind of in conjunction to Idan's videos, as I felt it all tied in together. Let me also say that I don't judge people by their concept of God or Jesus, we are all here learning together & I find it helpful to sometimes just compare notes. My notes could be totally wrong but for me & the test I'm studying for, my notes are like my cheat sheet, keeping me at at least a 'C' average, ya know?


In closing I would like to leave you with this parting thought... Everyone knows that we have to wear a shirt in public.....but it should be up to 'us' as individuals, to pick the COLOR of the shirt, without judgment or guilt.

That's me!


Understood. Ditto for me. And anyone who doesn't like an opinion expressed here or anywhere can be responsible for their own feelings and can choose to stop reading if it is too upsetting to experience a difference. Or turn the channel if they are watching TV!

Okay, I will!



I had similar types of questions!

You cottoned on to this so young! I always found it ironic that a church would teach about free will being God's great gift to "man", my religion (Mormon) did anyway, and yet, you were commanded not to use it. I wuz confused.

I finally reasoned, if God gives me a drive and will to live, choose and experiment and then also wants to punish me for doing so, then this is one sadistic God, or he doesn't really exist, or someone is doing some serious misinterpretations. I finally decided that if there was a God, it would be greater than me, and the best (greater) people I knew, were reasonable and compassionate people. So I reasoned that God was likely closer to that. Now, however, I understand through my own spiritual experiences, that God (mine) doesn't care what I do. It is up to me -- it's all good. I need only worry about the earthly consequences.



Ooo, I'm reading each of your paragraphs and answering spontaneously...I see you gleaned a very similar answer to mine! But even better put! No wonder we have been brought together. At the very least we have the same God!


U + Me ---> in the same choir! You're singing my song and perfectly in key!!

Atheism: I also did this for a number of years out of my confusion as well. Mine was based on my religion so effectively drumming into me that it was the only true religion, that when I could not longer see it as pure truth, I made the erroneous assumption that then nothing was true!


Hallelujah! Speak to me...


I have truly met my match in deep thinking, philosophy, interpretation and explanation. Bless, bless, bless you, Jamie! I'm going to thank God right now for crossing our paths!

This is a long one, and a masterpiece, Jame. I am going to do this in two posts. So ending part one here.

You are a truly skilled orator! Bravo! Tis beautiful!

I am with you! I totally see from your perspective. It is not hard, it is so easy I hardly need shift my eyes much at all. We are kindred.

Yours is my favourite post ever!

Whew, I've been wanting to respond to this for a couple of days now, but have been dealing with a leaky basement for the last 24 hrs ! And now that I have the time, let me tell you how elated I was to read your replies Alisa. I don't think I've ever had someone understand my beliefs as easily as you do. Any time I've ever tried to discuss this w/people I don't know, it turns into a mini Holy war, & I end up having to defend instead of discuss, & prove instead of relate. So thank you, for being so 'easy', & I mean that in the best way.

I find so much truth in the things you post too. I would have to say that you're my favorite author...when does your next book hit paperback?!

I'm so honored by your very last line of your last post! Never before have I felt I reached someone, like you make me feelI do with you. So the writting just comes natural when inspired by someone like you. I don't feel under attack w/you, so I think it allows me to be completely open, & in doing that It allows me to be a better communicator. So thank you, YOU are MY favorite person to post to!

I love it when we have those Khumbia moments too, like we're speaking the same language in thought. As you said, we are definately in the same choir!

I'm glad I got the chance to tell my experience of my spiritual journey here. By doing so I learned that I evidently am not the only one who took a while to find my own path. Which I know I'm not, but it really started to feel that way after finding out that so many people seemed so confident about their beliefs, at the time I was searching for truth. I felt like such a loner, like I had no belief to define my existance.

All in all your two above replies mean so much to me, honestly as I was reading them, my whole being inside was smiling!
Thank you so much. Honestly WAJNE!!

Awww, thank you very much, Jaime! We are on the same page and feel the same way toward each other!

I feel like I'm on an even faster track to spiritual evolution thanks to the synergy I am experiencing with you.

Ditto, like the fast track at Disney !

The 'son of god', huh?

Well, before I start, I will say, to the huge, over-sensitive, politically correct, argue-over-anything writhing mass of insensitive hive-minds that what I say is my opinion, and my belief. If it ends up offending, or contradicting anyone, then I can't help your ridged belief system and inmoving state of mind.

ANYWAY, many people see 'god' as different things. To me, 'god' is a fable-character to inspire confidence, self-richousness, and a group of people to relate to, in modern times, anyway.

So, I suppose, to me, the 'son of god' is confidence and arrogance.

Same way as Jaime said she 'thought' with herself over contradictions, and rushed flaws in the bible and religious history, and, when questioning those higher in 'religious power' about their religion, was punished for questioning the bible and god, however flawed, cracked and missmatched it might be. The punishment over questioning religion just proves the arrogance religion brings forth, and the obvious defensive pose, as if any question towards their beliefs might make them actually consider what they believe, or that they don't even believe it themselves, and are just trying to both back themselves up, and converting others to their cause, so they can feel confident in their pseudo-belief, because others believe it, too.

Thats how I see it, anyway.

Bravo Well said OMJ! You should do my editing, you get the point accross in a much quicker way. I especially liked this...



Yup, yup, yup Thank you, very well said indeed!

Why thankyou! I suppose I just have a knack in writing. Everyone's got to have a natural skill, huh.

Lol, you're welcome? I just voiced what I believed over the whole religious concept.

I can get a grip upon religions such as Wicca, as they're very nature, and spirit orientated. I don't believe they try and explain the creation of anything, just the 'workings' of the world. I can see nature, and I know of spirits, so, I can 'see' it in action. The changing of seasons and so on.
But, Christianity, and other modern religions? I just can't see that happening.

This post wasn't meant as a reply to OMJ's last post above. I accidently hit the reply button & didn't notice until after it was posted, sorry OMJ.

Ahhh, today I had a very sensitive conversation w/a now 'former' friend over religion & sin. I try very hard not to do this w/some of my friends, as our spiritual ideas seem to clash more times than not. But in this case I had a friend that felt justified in taking my spiritual inventory & tried to explain 'sin' to me & the ones that I was accountable for. Um hello, I grew up Catholic...I think I know a little bit about sin! "Guilty!" he kept saying, every time I answered a question that led him to believe I was a sinner.

Sheesh, in an hour & a half I was schooled on religion, persecuted for being a sinner & guilted for not admitting it to him & God. I didn't even see a collection plate, he did this for free! Lucky me, all of that Bible beating & I didn't even have to stand, kneel or genuflect. I do kind of feel that I was jipped right outta my sip of wine & cracker though, but that's OK, immediately after hanging up w/him I had a full glass of Lambrusco & Handi-Snacks cheese & crackers! Sinner my butt, who gets reamed like that & STILL accepts Communion as selflessly as I?

Anyway, after my bottle, <ahem>, I mean glass of wine, I started to think about the things he depicted as being my sins. Here's the list...

Cheated on boyfriends past: Yep guilty. A horrible thing I did in couple of relationships. I was young, 19 & 23. I did this to two guys, one I was engaged to & the other I wasn't serious about.

*What did I learn? Well, being a cheater will definitely teach you why you shouldn't be a cheater. I learned that it was probably one of the most destructive things I've ever done to myself or anyone else. It doesn't make you feel superior to your mate, it doesn't make you feel good about yourself. It means looking over your shoulder, never feeling at ease & always knowing that if you choose to end it w/one of them, someone is going to get hurt & YOU will be the cause of that pain in someone that you care deeply about. It diminishes your self-worth, confidence & spiritual base. It makes you lie continuously, it makes you fear perpetually & love suspiciously. This is what I've learned from BEING a cheater. That lesson is more valuable to me than it's weight in gold. Because of that lesson, I am who I am today.

When asked if I would do it the same if I had the chance to do it over, my answer was "ABSOLUTELY!", This infuriated my friend (we'll call him Dick, so to keep with anonymity here) immensely. He feels that I should want to do things differently if given the chance... what kind of bologna is that? If I had done anything differently, then TODAY I would be a lying, conniving, cheating; miserably married mother of two. One plane ticket away from the latest Jerry Springer show. No thanks. I wouldn't have it any other way than the way it already played out. That lesson taught me so much. I won't be as naive as to say that cheating on someone hurt just as much as being cheated on. What I will say is this - what being 'cheated on' did to my heart, 'being the cheater' did to my conscience. My conscience as the 'cheater' was shredded to the same degree as my heart was from being 'cheated on'. Not to mention, I was already a suspicious person from having been cheated on, but OMG did I become suspicious when I was the cheater. You start to think "Well, if it's so easy for me to cheat...HE MUST BE DOING IT TOO!" Oh, what a tangled web we weave...

So do it all again differently? Nope. Differently could mean that I would be a different person today. It would also mean that the people (guys) in those situations wouldn't have gotten to learn their lessons either. I'm sure I taught each of the two to value their own self-worth, never put yourself BEHIND the love you have for someone else - love yourself first. And last but not least, I think the most valuable lesson I was able to teach them through this was, ALWAYS TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS. I wouldn't change my lesson or either of theirs for anything in the world & I sure as hell am not going to call it a sin. Maybe a Less-sin.

Dick's second example was stealing: When I was 13 I stole a bottle of hairspray from a local grocer. Mom & pops type place. I was caught, police were called, mom was called. Police let me off w/a stern warning, store didn't press charges, but the thing I couldn't get over was letting my mom down & the disappointment in her eyes when she came to the store to take me home. For about a whole year afterwords, when ever I thought of the look in my mom's eyes that day in the store, it would send me into a long hard private cry.

*What did I learn from this? That people see you by how you present yourself. Meaning my standing at that store was no longer as a "valued customer". Even though my mom shopped there a good couple of times a week. I was always watched by staff when ever I went into that store. But on the same token, they also saw my mom for what SHE was, a hard working single mother who was raising 3 kids on her own & doing a pretty damn good job. Sure, she had a daughter who tried to steal from them, but that didn't affect how they saw HER. They knew by how well all 3 of us were behaved (normally), that we were good kids & mature beyond our years (as kids go). PEOPLE SEE YOU BY HOW YOU PRESENT YOURSELF.

What lesson did the store learn? Their investment in in-store surveillance certainly wasn't a bad idea - keep up the good work!

Needless to say, I haven't stolen a thing since. Not even a stick of gum. Lesson learned. Would I change it if I could? Negative. Who would I be today if I did? Well I'd probably be sitting at this computer right now trying to convince you to give me your credit card number for a donation for my fictitious relative who needs fake surgery. Again, no thanks. I'll keep my lesson, you can have the sin...Dick.

OK so considering the length of this post already, I'll stop w/Dick's complaints. Now I'll explain why I feel that those aren't sins & why I feel no guilt.

In the cheating scenarios, I admitted & apologized to both people. I was forgiven by both. I forgave myself. Done deal.

Why is this so hard for people to accept? I agreed to come here & learn all I could about negative energy & the way it affects my soul, my karma & the human that am becoming. This helps me recognize & appreciate the positive energy that is so familiar to us on 'the other side', as well as teach me to pull that pos energy towards myself despite the challenges & obstacles I endure here on earth.

In the case of the attempted theft, I apologized to the owner of the store by hand written letter & in person. I was forgiven & after watching me for a few months I was again a valued & trusted customer. I forgave myself. Ba-dum-bum.

Again, same reasons I gave above. Came here to learn. And learning I intend to do. I have no choice, I missed the last shuttle bus to the other side & I'm all outta frequent flyer miles, might as well learn something while I'm her eh?

Dick claims that I could have learned those very same lessons by living by the words of the Bible & the life experience & mistakes of others. I disagree...vehemently. Does reading through your entire computer user's manual mean that you will now know everything you're supposed to know to operate your PC? No. If you read the instructions to a video game, would that mean that you would sail through each level flawlessly & remember where all the traps & surprises are. Would I be a perfect player relying only on the instruction manual & the experience of others? No. So why should I go by the manual here, & trust that the same lessons will be learned? I hate to sound juvenile here but "Don't touch the stove, it's hot" means nothing to a toddler until, he/she actually TOUCHES THE STOVE while it's hot. I can almost guarantee you that despite mom & dad's constant warnings, every toddler has touched a hot stove...ONCE.

What Dick doesn't seem to understand is that we as humans learn from personal experience. That's why we're human, it's why we came, free will. I couldn't imagine coming here to follow the proverbial 'rules' & never straying from them. What would be the point? For my soul to evolve, I need these human experiences. I need to experience duality to learn of both pos & neg energy. This is not a realm of singularity, earth. The entire place smacks of duality...light/dark, good/bad, hot/cold, soft/hard, full/starving, rich/poor, kind/mean, heavy/light. If both exist here, than both I will experience, it's as simple as that. I didn't go to high school just to sit in the parking lot. Furthermore, I have a feeling that if I don't learn what I'm supposed to during this life/class, I'll be held back & forced to live another life to learn the lessons I missed during this one if I want my soul to evolve. I never repeated a grade in high school & I'm not repeating one here either! I will advance & evolve & soon I will graduate & move on to a new school in another dimension. Each "sin" I commit is like a D- on a mid-term test. I can only see the areas where I need improvement, if I have the guts to take the test & get it wrong.

So would I change any of my sins (read mistakes)? Not a single one of them.

As for Dick, I don't even mind his views on religion/morality. What I do mind is having it shoved down my throat, all the while telling me that in 2012 there will be a reckoning & I won't be invited to the after-party. He also told me he knows that God is upset w/me for being too arrogant to ask for his forgiveness. I told him that I just had a conversation w/God the night before & he didn't mention it to me, but he did say something about being annoyed with people who impersonate judges.

I could tell by that point that I was about to lose a friend. No sooner did this fly out of his mouth, "Well I have a pretty good rapport with God, I'm going to ask God to forgive you myself". My reply "Well that's great, while the two of you are chatting could you ask him what those winning lottery numbers are?"...that's when he hung up. Well either he hung up or it was divine intervention from my good ol' pal God. Good lookin out Pops, I owe ya one!

I'm now a friend short, but Webster's isn't willing to re-define the phrase 'unconditional love' to include Dick's brand of commitment. Pity. I don't like to lose friends over personal beliefs, but I refuse to lose personal beliefs over friends.

And so it goes...another one bites the dust.

Great post, Jaime.


Through the process of refinement, the chaff comes away from the ripened seed. Dick is chaff. He was helpful for a while, but he's not needed any more. So long...!

You go powerful woman!

Ditto! I'm with you all the way jimjam, Alisa and OMJ! can you please be my spokesperson for my mother JJ? we seem to always butt heads when it comes to this topic. You see she has been a Catholic school teacher for almost 30yrs and I was raised in a Catholic family and went to Catholic school all my life, except for two years at the end of high school. The only small difference between you and I is that I never really question the bible or went "soul searching" I never was in a period of my life when I was "confused" I just somehow knew the truth, I really don't know how when all I ever been around was religious dogma.

I guess I always took the bible as fables for teaching life lessons. In my mind it was all just stories and I was the type of person who never "asked questions" or went against the nuns. In fact I was the one with A's in religion class. I just always kept my opinions to myself until I became older. This is when I really started speaking out against the church. I would make statements to my mom like "why do we need to go to church when I can talk and praise God on my own in my prayers" and "why should I listen to the priest when he probably doing the same things he's preaching against" and " Church is only a meeting ground for people to show off their best Sunday outfits and to find a suitable mate" I swear to me at the particular church I was raised in, it always reminded me of a fashion show!

well you know that didn't go so well with mom which in turn made her say that I'm heading straight for Satan's door! especially after I told her " Well I guess I won't be alone since most of the people in your congregation is hypocrites!!! The majority of them was dropping it like it was hot in the club the night before!"LOL!!!

It wasn't until I got into spirituality and I tried to teach her some of the amazing truths I learned, this is when she accused me of being a atheist.I believe that all religions has truth in them, but it's not just one that is correct. Many have lies and half-truths this is due to what jimjam said:

"man wrote the bible, & upon many thousands of years it has been interpreted, misinterpreted, revised, passed down, reinterpreted and passed down again"

therefore IMO all religion is incorrectly evaluated. As stated from a book:

"It's embellished with assumptions, theories and hypotheses which are false".

It shouldn't matter whether it's Yaweh, Allah, the source or anything else it's still GOD!! it's not the name you choose to call him/her which I believe in duality also. But most importantly we are God, God is us and us is God.

When it comes to Jesus yes, I believe he walked the Earth, but he could have been a alien for all I know. Jesus probably was a guru of his time. A master like Ghandi. Heck you never know he could have been the reincarnation of him or someone else who is very spiritually powerful like buddha.

All in all you took the words right out of my mouth jimjam!

My conclusion is religion is a bunch of robotic religious rituals by priests as a self-serving instrument of control. It's nothing but a t.v. show! a program that they want us to follow so that they can be in charge. it's a power game and as long as we abide we're safe from the gates of fiery hell that they also invented. It is easy to teach this altered notion to people who do not want to be responsible for their own lives. Slaves are such beings. As long as one chooses to assign responsibility for creation, existence and personal accountability for one's own thoughts and actions to others, one is a slave. This all has to do with a private hidden agenda that is beknowst to us.

With all the mumbo jumbo that I was taught and is currently being taught to others. I will leave this lovely saying by a philosopher known as Laozi Enjoy!

"He who looks will not see it; He who listens will not hear it; He who gropes will not grasp it. The formless nonentity, the motionless source of motion. The infinite essence of the spirit is the source of life. Spirit is self.


Love, Light and laughter
orb-queen

Wow, OQ! I had no idea (for some reason) that you had this type of background. What an amazingly balanced, wise woman you are to see and steer so clearly through all of this! I am so fortunate to be in the company of such powerful, beautiful women on this forum.

Thanks Alisa for those kind words! Iam also grateful and bless to be in the company of beautiful, wise and powerful ladies as well.

yes I have to tread carefully when it comes to talking with my mom about religion. I'm sorry to say she's one of those brain-washed slaves I was talking about. It's unfortunate but true! She's a Aries so she's very stubborn and it's her way or the highway! She assumes she's right and will stop you in a heartbeat if you dare to have an opinion that differs from her point of view.

Other then that we have a great relationship, She's a very modern, hip woman who many mistaken to be my older sister then my actual mother now you know she just loves that LOL! I dunno sometimes she can be a bit of a hypocrite, like she believes in Aliens and Ghosts, but refuse to believe there's a connection with them and religion. Then when I point these things out and tell her about her contradictions she gets mad! I love her and all but she's a weird one that woman I swear! she has no problem looking at the evidence of aliens in ancient art and the bible referring to them, but the minute you say anything about God being self or anything to do with God in that genre she goes nuts and cuts you off . I think she's really scared to admit the truth because if she does she'll have to admit it to herself and then all the lies that she truly believes in for all these years will start crumbling down. Then she will have nothing to turn to since her life is based on the Catholic faith even her job!

I secretly can't wait for the day when the SHTF and everything comes out that's when I can say "see I told you so"

- orbie

Aww, thank you doll, I loves ya so muches!

I adore the chaff comment. Nope, not needed any more... bye Dick.

Sheesh, sometimes I wonder if I've written certain people into my life chart just to mess w/myself. Kind of a cruel joke that my soul has played on my human mind!

At any rate, I think we're both better off being people from each other's pasts, rather than people of each other's present.

And on to the next...

Aw, thanks Orby. Yes I can be your official spokesperson for your mom, I accept payment in candy.
A Catholic school teacher...I feel your pain OQ!


I never believed the stories in the bible to be real, but fables...I'm not sure that they're all just fables. I guess I more think of the stories in the Bible as symbols & metaphors of something that resembles truth. That is, I don't think that the bible is a book of lies per-say, just a very misunderstood book of metaphors that explain our souls' purpose to our human minds. I think that the Bible is a book created to contain the truth, if you know how to read it & decipher the literal words from the metaphors. I understand that some words in the Bible do not mean what we once thought they meant. Therefore, I believe a lot of misinterpretation has been made. Some of the words in the Bible that are most often mistaken are as follows...Temple, son, ages, resurrection, heavens, world, fruit etc. We read these words one way in the Bible, but if we took away their literal meanings & replaced them with their actual intended meanings, we start to see truth in the words of the Bible. Temple = mind/body, son = sun, ages = our celestial alignments, resurrection = proof of life after death, heavens = the universe & a specific consciousness; not a specific place, world = consciousness of the mind, fruit = knowledge, and one that I forgot to add is pillars/towers = our human mind & soul consciousness. These words are sometimes taken quite literally in the Big Book to mean structures, buildings, real physical places instead of levels of consciousness, knowledge etc. But if you read scripture applying the 'real' meanings of those words, you'll find that the Bible isn't as far fetched as it seems. You'll find some truth & hidden meaning in the Bible. I DID NOT always believe this, it was part of my spiritual journey here to discover the hidden truths of the Bible. There was a time in my life that I didn't believe a single thing written in that book , but now, after years of research & study & opening my mind to receive truth , I've come to terms with the Bible. I will never be the type of person who lives & dies by the words of the Bible, but I do see the value of it, if properly read & applied. In order to do that, you have to forget everything you already know about it & start from scratch.


Oh, how I'm able to relate to this! Some of my very own thoughts coming out of the mouth of someone I've never met. I concur on all accounts OQ. I find that God listens & communicates just as well when I pray from home. I also find it hard to learn from a man (priest) who is probably committing the same 'sins' as I, yet calling me a 'sinner'. Fashion show/meat market...LOL, yep, agreed. Sometimes I felt like the fashionistas of my church were going to get a rude awakening when they discovered that they were smack dab in the middle of "The Emperor's New Clothes", and they were the Emperor himself, standing there naked, with egg on their faces! Why does such vanity & stature take over in a place where you are supposed to feel humble & unified Why do we keep trying to 'one up' each other, when the reason we were all in the House of God to begin with, is to unify w/God & ourselves. How do we unify when we keep setting ourselves apart from each other by these silly worldly things? Church...sometimes the Mecca of 'sin' (if you believe in that meaningless word).


I know what you mean. If you believe in the church, religion & the Bible, then I would expect that a person should live that belief in all areas of their life, not just the area of life dedicated to one Sunday a week. If you wouldn't drop it like it's hot in church, then you shouldn't drop it anywhere else either . If you wouldn't cheat on your wife in church, then you shouldn't cheat anywhere else. Yet, time & again I see people fip-flop once their hands touch the double doors of church. Hypocrisy...I think it originated in church.

Now that's not to say that that's how I view all church-goers, no not at all. I believe that some people live their faith in every aspect of the term. For those people, I have respect . Not because of 'what' they believe, but because they have the courage to speak what they believe & then live it. Even if I don't agree with their beliefs or their lifestyles, I respect them for being true to 'self', I respect them for their loyalty to self.

Satan's door ? Usually a person who feels so comfortable as to tell you that you're not good enough to sit beside our Creator, is a person who fears that THEY are not good enough. We are mirrors of each other , we ARE each other. We are ALL worthy, as long as we right our wrongs w/self & the ones we hurt along the way. God? Why right it w/God? We are God, us; our neighbors, our children our friends, our enemies...all God. When we 'right' it with them/us, we ARE righting it with God .

The next time someone tells you that you are headed straight for Satan's door, you tell THEM to save you a seat (and just to pull their leg a bit, tell them you prefer a table by the fireplace)!

Jesus, yes I agree, he did walk the earth. But as the son of God? I think he was a wonderful prophet & teacher of humanity. I think his purpose here was to show us that WE are God. I think Jesus' main lesson here was to teach us that WE are OUR neighbor, WE are OUR enemy, WE are God. One of the lessons that sticks so much in my mind was the "Turn the other cheek" lesson. In the Bible, this has been taken to mean; & I'm paraphrasing here: "When someone physically hurts you (or emotionally), don't hurt back, turn the other cheek. Don't let yourself get physical/hurtful with another human being out of spite or anger." Well, yes, that is a decent lesson, but I think the real lesson is: "Don't beat yourself up". Now how can the lesson mean don't beat YOURSELF up, when it clearly states to turn the other cheek when SOMEONE ELSE strikes/wrongs you? Well that's what I meant by the hidden meanings in the Bible: I think that the "turn the other cheek" lesson was intended to help us realize that we are all One. Since we are all connected, all mirrors of each other, we ARE "they", "them", "us", "we"...WE are the ones that Jesus was referring to in this instance - OUR COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS. If I am hurt by my neighbor, it is only human to want to hurt back...when you look at your neighbor as a SEPARATE entity from your 'SELF'. But when you realize that your neighbor is really just a reflection of a certain aspect of your 'SELF', you realize that what Jesus was really saying was this: "The more you hurt your neighbor, the more you really just hurt yourself." Like cutting off your nose despite your face, do you get what I'm saying? If I'm getting resistance from people, that is the universe telling me that something in OUR collective consciousness is conflicting. So if I treat the collective consciousness as separate entities (people) out to get me or harm me, then I'm only perpetuating the conflict by not realizing that it is ME (a reflection of me, an aspect of me) that is in conflict. Not that SOMEONE is starting conflict with ME. By striking back, I am literally hurting my "self", since it's my "self" (or aspects thereof) that are causing the friction. You are an aspect of me OQ, & I am an aspect of you; we are both reflections of the same source. And as reflections of the same whole, we all have the same purpose...unity. If we separate ourselves from each other here on earth, we forget that we are all One. Jesus was saying that we need to remember that we are NOT separate, but One. So when we strike out in retaliation, we are striking ourselves. He was saying that to turn the other cheek, allows you to see the many parts of yourself (other people); as YOU, instead of seeing them as "other people". In that case, why would you strike yourself? Why would you intentionally hurt yourself? You wouldn't. You would try to understand why that aspect of yourself is in conflict wouldn't you? If I was suffering leg pain, I wouldn't go & cut off my leg to remedy that problem. I would try to understand what is causing that pain, I would look within my own body to see what's causing the pain, then I would try to fix it. That's what turning the other cheek means to me - Don't disregard & strike back @ the pain, but instead, LOOK WITHIN & find the source of the pain, then heal yourself.

Turn the other cheek = don't beat YOURSELF up. Learn & move on, but as 'One', NOT AS INDIVIDUAL MISSING PARTS (discarded legs).

Sometimes I explain this to my children with the example of a hand. I tell them that every person here on earth, along with God, creates one hand. God/Source is the palm, the base. WE are the many fingers/appendages/ extensions of that palm/God. TOGETHER we can "grasp" anything. TOGETHER, we become ONE functioning hand. But what if our fingers didn't work TOGETHER? What if our fingers didn't believe that they were all parts of a whole, and instead thought of themselves as individuals connected to nothing. What if our fingers didn't like each other & disagreed with each other to the point of revolt? What if the fingers decided that they were individuals, who weren't even aware of each other? Well then we are left with a palm & five separate fingers (four fingers & a thumb if you want to get technical- see the way we sub-categorize our parts, further perpetuating the idea of separation?) - not a hand. To be the hand, we must work TOGETHER. We must realize that we are ONE body part (consciousness) - a hand. We're not separate from each other, we ARE each other. Each of those fingers are connected to & a part of, the palm (God/Source). Every single one of them are ATTACHED to base/palm/source. And every single one of them, a direct EXTENSION of the palm/source. There is no separation, it is but one part, one whole...one hand. "One".

The sooner we all "grasp" this concept, the sooner we will grasp the universal knowledge available to us. But we must first realize that to "grasp", we need to be a hand - One.

Boy do I know how to ramble on or what? So sorry. Sometimes I just get lost in my own thoughts.

I will end with this though, I do have a certain love for people that I hate. I can't explain what I mean exactly, but I'll try. Have you ever looked at a convicted murderer & been able to feel connected to him/her. Not on a morbid level of any sort, but just able to relate somehow to that individual? I have experienced this throughout my life. I have beaten the crap out of some girl back in school, only to run to her defense later when she needed help. I have wished a child molester death, only to grieve (at some level) his passing & lifeless existence here on earth. I have watched a mother kill her own children & wished her the pain & suffering that the children had to endure, only to find my self feeling sympathy for her, as the memories she will have to live with - for the rest of her life.

I don't feel ashamed for these feelings. I think that it is proof that we are One . I am FEELING CONNECTED to that murderer because he/she is ME. I feel the need to DEFEND MY ENEMY, because that enemy is ME. I GRIEVED the child molester, because dare I say it; that molester is ME. And I sympathize with the undeserving mother, because I am SHE as well. Even if I didn't do those things as me; Jaime, I still have to realize that these 'others' are extensions & reflections of me. They are the parts of me that I (we) as a collective consciousness, have separated ourselves from. Those people are the parts of me that don't "get it" yet, individual fingers - not working as a hand. So it's easy for me to hate, & at the same time; to love, forgive, empathize & relate to these people that we consider to be the 'bad seeds'; the enemies. WE are OUR own enemies, WE are all that is wrong with US. I guess that's the proof that we stem from positive energy & love. Any human in their right mind would never sympathize or empathize or relate to the handful of people I just mentioned, right? Well the answer's in the question..."handful of people"...one hand - they ARE us. We are all the very same Hand. Then take in mind that we are also NOT JUST human, and the whole game changes. Now 'right mind' takes on a whole new meaning when we exclude the human idea of 'right mind' & replace it with the universal idea of 'right mind' = one mind - a universal way of thinking.

Maybe to some people I sound crazy, that's what Dick used to say anyway. Dick is the part of me that hasn't gotten it yet , the part of me that still struggles to feel worthy & whole. I accept this. I do have the power to change this aspect of my 'self' though, & I realize that. By disconnecting the negative from my life, I make room for positive. By letting Dick go, I have opened a space for another part of me to grow, kind of like pruning one part of a tree to promote growth on another part of it. But I have to remember that Dick is actually some aspect of ME, & I have to remember that I need to respect & love Dick, no matter the 'illusion' of difference between the illusion of 'us'. And so I will...from the illusion of distance!

I have a feeling that your mom will believe what she so desires. She is the part of you & I that teaches 'acceptance'. Although we disagree with her beliefs, we have to remember that she is the part of 'us'; self, that is teaching the lesson of 'acceptance' to us. From her, we are learning how to accept each other as individuals with different ideas & beliefs. And yes, to some degree we came here to learn what it is like to have the illusion of individuality. However, people like you & I OQ, help to teach mom that very same lesson, but with a twist. The twist is "I can love & respect you anyway". Yes at some level everyone has to learn to accept people for who they really are - the good, the bad, & the ugly. But the twist is literally to be able to learn to 'accept', while still loving that person; yourself. If we can accomplish that, then the collective consciousness starts to shift from 'separate' to 'One'. People like mom, have a hard time loving what they feel they cannot accept about others. People like you & I have a hard time believing that there are 'others' to begin with. Mom is just the different aspects of you & I that exist. We love her, no matter the difference in belief.

From now on don't battle her in the area of religion/spirituality , just accept her beliefs as 'her beliefs' & love her for her loyalty to God/self. That's all you can do. You can change the outcome of your relationship in that area by acceptance coupled w/love. When we try so hard to convince others of our own beliefs, we slowly start becoming the 'Dicks' of the world. We become what we say we hate - an idea/belief pusher . We have moved past that level OQ, you & I as individuals have already learned that 'free will' means exactly that. Now we have to teach people to accept & love our differences, as they bring together the whole picture. Mom knows this, at a universal level she knows this & may even realize it before our time here is finished. But it is up to her to find that truth for herself, even if it isn't exactly in your timing. I know, it sucks not to be able relate perfectly to the woman who helped breath life into your body. But if we all related perfectly to each other, what would we learn from each other?

I know this religion/spiritual conflict between you & mom isn't the whole of your relationship, I don't mean to insinuate that it is. I believe that you & your mom have a very strong bond, just as my mom & I did. It's just a constant life lesson for the both of you & all of 'us' to learn...see, accept, then love anyway.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me, I feel validated through your experiences & am happy to see that we relate to each other so well...I should hope so, seeing as how YOU are ME & I'm one hell of a great lady! LOL, yeah, I'm still workin on that conceit lesson!

Love & blessings, or as you would say; love, light & laughter,

~Jaime~

...and as a footnote... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H88wz1GpSkE

ooo thanks JimJam for the great feedback! I have a lot to say again also but going to have to do it later busy week ugh!! but Just a quick question my sister and I was talking about the Adam and Eve story and how they had Cain and Abel. We were discussing where the "other" people came from and she said something like they were "demons" I'm like what! I've never heard of that before she was like yeah there's a story behind it so have you heard this before? and what the heck is she talking about? I'm lost and confused but I promise to get back to you soon

So as to give orb_queen's question the proper attention that it deserves, I have moved her latest post & my reply to a new thread in the philosophies forum. The new thread is titled Cane & Abel & the Mystery Woman.

We were created in Gods image, We are all the sons of god, Hence we all are gods, We are capable within ourselves to create our own kingdoms and our own divine being, What we do is allow ourselves to be chained in this physical plane because of an inability to accept our own divinity ! So we seek comfort in giving power to others as to create our own security ! Religion, Science, Social positioning and creature comforts are all the manifestations of this ! One should rely on oneself and his own divinity then he may see the true miracle of his own existence !

Well said, and I agree. I tend also to think that we chose to "fall" into physical (imprisonment) on purpose, to explore and know ourselves more fully. Emanation.

Come here, forget our divinity, see/experience existence from this extreme position, learn, begin to uncover and rediscover our divinity, and head on back with all we have learned. I believe this is the way God grows. Expand as far as possible, then contract all back in. Then expand again going farther next time, etc.

It's all a game - I've been told that sooo many times by spirit, not to worry because it is all a virtual-reality, holographic game.