Originally Posted by Alisa
Just as an opener...this morning as I awoke from sleep and dream, but was still altered in consciousness, I saw a scene containing the image of the numbers 2012 as if carved from stone, but it wasn't stone, I'm not sure what material it was, but I don't think it matters. Just trying to describe it... It was like a drawing of 3-D, a 2-D representation of 3-D. It was imbued with concepts and ideas. There were two bodies lying above/beyond 2012 (a father and child, I think). I knew that they had laid down their bodies (death). And there was the concept of bodies all around, dressed in white cotton, lying in a manner that reminded me of the Jones Town Kool-Aid Suicide. That idea was layered in there.

It sounds gruesome, but it was not, entirely. Nor was it delightful. It was meant to be informational, not emotional. It really felt like everyone shed their bodies or laid them down and slipped out, and there was the idea of suicide, yet it also did not feel "planned". Oh, and I had lyrics repeating in my mind [but I'll have to come back and edit/insert them when I remember what they were mellow...it was something like "you gotta live".]


Interesting.

Originally Posted by Alisa

Okay, now back on track...

I love this analogy of the puzzle. It is a good one. I also feel that I collect and collate (like I have this on-going data base in my mind). I use this with numerology. I like to collect people's numbers, to keep comparing them in my mind as I try to make sense of it by seeing the patterns between people with the same numbers.

I also really like that you choose not to limit yourself to any one source no matter the source. That's a one-sentence keeper. thumbup

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There is always left open the possibility an understanding I hold is in error or incomplete in some form.


Given the concept of infinity, or at least the limitations of human understanding, would it be more accurate to say that no understanding is ever complete or without error? Not to say that we do not need to put a foothold somewhere and chose a place to lay claim so we are not floating endlessly waiting for a perfect, complete understanding, but doing so with the knowledge that the understanding is only temporary - an illusion.

If we were to say that no understanding is ever complete or without error, then we would either be assuming or have adopted this as an understanding.

I do not subscribe to the belief that nothing can be known. Experiential self evidence seems to render this notion incorrect.
To my knowledge - and again only from my own journey and investigating, I certainly do not say this as complete fact - there are universal truths. The universe has structure and logic. It would be rather difficult to have a conversation here if my screen wobbled like jelly and the letters of the words kept changing places at random times. spin

From this discussion, there is perhaps two areas that may be looked at. One is the concept of objectivity and subjectivity. To my knowledge there is a form of objectivity which coincides with universal truth, but this is not for the most part the objectivity which science uses or understands. To cover what I interpret one of your points to be, yes the worldly illusion is just that. One need only contemplate things 10,000 years from now or how it will or might be after death to glimpse this. Which leads to the second area, much further beyond the paradigm of thought most common on this level presently - that is, basically speaking, that life serves to gather experiential knowledge for the higher self; much like the gifts being returned to the creator as you have already put forth.


Originally Posted by Alisa

I mean, it just makes me wonder sometimes if there is any point in trying to figure things out. dunno Maybe just to "be" is better?


I would suggest unifying "figuring things out" and "being" into one.

Originally Posted by Alisa

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Hence knowledge by it's own virtue buffers against false knowledge.

Though it seems like it could also be a "block" to other possibilities. Maybe the whole puzzle is wrong?

If it were, with what would you show it to be incorrect...?

Originally Posted by Alisa

[I'm intentionally thinking of counter points to your points to keep the analyzations going, hope you approve.]

My approval is not required for you to do as you choose.


Originally Posted by Alisa

This almost seems like an either/or. Logic versus belief. Is it?


No versus. It is another level of thought/being. Belief is redundant here. Logic is merely a tool.